I was talking to someone today and he tried to make the argument that if one had sex with a prostitute and didn’t pay her it would constitute theft of services rather than rape. It got me thinking, that in a way he had a point. But I’m really not sure if that argument can be made. What say you? Rape or they of service.
I’ve never been with a prostitute, but I would assume that this would be a non issue as I would guess one usual had to pay up front before services are received. Is that the way it usually works?
I’m going to be excruriated for this, maybe, but I say theft of service. She had sex willingly with him, he just didn’t meet his end of the bargain.
To take another example, let’s assume that some virtuous young woman agrees to have sex with some guy only because he promises to marry her. After, he refuses the marriage. I don’t think this can possibly can be considered rape. Same with, say, some woman saying she will have sex with her boyfriend only if he carries out his long delayed promise to bring her on a cruise to the Bahamas. Once again, he doesn’t. I still don’t see how that can be rape. Or “I give you a blowjob, you do the dishes”. You don’t do the dishes. That’s not sexual assault.
I’m kind of surprised that you find the idea that this wouldn’t be rape to be so novel. To me, it’s pretty self-evident that this scenario has nothing to do with rape at all. If it were, you’ve suddenly criminalized a huge number of fairly standard (if jerkish) behaviors in relationships. If I promise a woman I’ll still respect her in the morning, and in the morning, I don’t actually respect her all that much, I’m being a douchebag, but I’m suddenly a post facto rapist.
I wouldn’t consider it rape (I think labeling as many things as possible as rape cheapens the term). Also prostitutes get the money up front to avoid this kind of situation.
AIUI, my best guess would be if the act occurred where prostitution is illegal, it wouldn’t be theft of services, nor would the prostitute be able to collect legally on it. In a legal jurisdiction it probably would be. But I doubt rape in a legal or illegal jurisdiction.
Yeah, I agree: I don’t see any way it could be considered rape. (Which is not to say there’s no danger that the prostitute might accuse her non-paying customer of rape, as a form of retribution.)
This is considered a crime in some countries, including as left-wing a country as Venezuela. (I don’t think it’s considered rape, but rather a lesser sexual crime punishable by a year in prison).
I think that only applies when the victim is tricked into thinking they are having sex with someone else. The scene in Revenge of the Nerds where the blonde cheer leader has sex with one of the nerds who is wearing her boyfriends costume comes to mind. If the victim consents to having sex with party A, but but party B does it instead type of thing.
Wiki sez rape by deception “is a crime in which the perpetrator has the victim’s sexual consent and compliance, but gains it through deception or fraudulent statements or actions.” I’ll freely admit that’s a weak cite, but have you got a strong one that specifies the fraud has to be of the Consent-With-Party-A-But-Not-Party-B type?
If you look at the notable cases section of that cite, there’s three examples from the US. The first two both involve someone gaining consent from someone by pretending to be their husband or boyfriend.
The third, Richard Allen Minsky, conned women into having sex with him by pretending to be a corrupt cop or other government official, who convinced them that a loved one was in trouble with the law, and could only get out of it if they slept with him. That’s closest to how you’re thinking of the term, but I suspect the issue there is that the sex was coerced: “Sleep with me, or your loved ones will suffer.” Minsky wasn’t actually in a position to carry out his threats, but I figure that’s a bit like robbing a store with an unloaded gun. The fact that your victim believed your threats is more important than whether you could carry out your threat.
There aren’t any notable cases in the article of someone being convicted of rape for promising something in exchange for sex, and then reneging on the promise.
(Israel apparently defines this crime more the way you do, but I assume we’re principally talking about the US legal system, here.)
This is a good point. Generally, one cannot make a legally binding contract that has an unlawful end. So if prostitution is illegal in the applicable jurisdiction, then a court will not recognize the validity of the “agreement”. Now, if this was taking place in a jurisdiction where it was legal to make such a deal, then that is a different story.
This concept, btw, is more or less the reason why drug traffickers are associated with so much violence. Since a court won’t enforce a contract for the sale of $100,000 worth of cocaine the way they would enforce one for the sale of $100,000 worth of wheat or $100,000 worth of ball bearings, enforcement falls to the jurisdiction of the Court of Smith and Wesson.
To clarify, I don’t think it’s rape, but admitting to myself is something as trivial as they of service made me feel squicky inside. From what I’ve gathered from the responses, good luck getting a charge to stick against the John for TOS. I guess in a jurisdiction where prostitution is legal she would have a case, but not anywhere else.
Le I said, never used the services of a lady of the night though I’m not morally against the idea. Quite honestly I haven’t the slightest clue why prostitution is illegal. Consenting adults should be able to come to ant agreement they want. The old joke about us illegal to charge for something you can legally give away for free and all.
With all due respect, it isn’t rape by any definition of the word, under any legal status of prostitution, or any circumstances; hell, it’s not even coercion or extortion.
It’s fraudulent, deceptive or whatever you wanna call it to not pay a prostitute, but it’s not rape.