Faith isn't easy

Faith is hard for a rational mind. I know some think that a rational mind and Faith are mutually exclusive terms, but I disagree, and that disagreement is harder then any self professed atheist can understand.

My rational side tells me that the very idea of an all loving, all powerful God just doesn’t make sense. That He created us and for some reason cares about what we do is kinda of absurd. How could any “being” with enough power to create an entire universe and everything in it… care about us silly humans running around on a small planet in a nondescript solar system around a medium star.

I see the horrible things people do to each other every day, and I just dont understand any of it. I hear the normal response from those of faith, “God has a plan”. I just cannot see any plan that would allow cancer to kill a baby, or allow a madman to rape and kill little girls. If that is a plan, what kind of person would design it? Would you want to follow that person? Pray to Him?

War, famine, disease, all these things could be fixed with a wave of His little finger, and yet He holds back… Why? Life doesn’t have to be so hard. If life is meant to “teach” us something, couldn’t we just read the lesson? We have a soul, must it be tortured so? And what does life teach a little baby born with some horrible disease, and doesn’t reach it’s first birthday? Life sucks?

I know all these things, I do. And yet, I just cannot dismiss this belief I have in God. It’s not like I grew up in a very religious home. I actually grew up in several foster homes as a child. I never had any formal introduction to God. And yet, I believe.

Is it fear that keeps me believing? Fear that everything is meaningless, and it’s all empty darkness in the end? To be truthful to myself, maybe a little. I certainly wouldn’t like to think that all we have done or will ever do means nothing. But while that is a piece, it’s not everything. I would rather know a truth, than follow a lie. No matter how comforting that lie may be to me.

Sometimes I wish I was just some fundi who has been so brainwashed by relgion that they cannot see past their own noses. That kind of blind faith would almost be comforting. But I’m not , I’m just not built that way.

I have had two things happen to me in my life that I have always contributed to God. As I have gotten older, I begin to see even those things differently… and I wonder. And yet, I still believe.

So every day I get up, go about my life in the usual ways. And every night before I sleep, I say a prayer. And some nights I wonder if I’m just talking to myself. Yet still tonight I will lay down, close my eyes, and say a prayer.

If you don’t agree with my beliefs, I can respect that. If you think religion is the worst thing that ever happened to the human race, I can see your point. If you compare God to Invisble Pink Unicorns, I see why. Just do me a favor and dont ever think that my belief comes from ignorance or is easy, because it’s neither.

Witnessing threads go in GD, so I’ll move this there for you.

I fully agree. Faith isn’t easy.

My biggest problem right now is that if there is a god, he’s a real prick. Too many really terrible things happened to those who were very close to me in a very short time span. I’m sure some religious zelot could explain them in some way that gives them comfort, but I’m not buying that there is a loving god.

I’d love to believe that there is something after death. I’m hoping that I can have my faith restored in some way before I die. But right now, I just can’t believe in religion.

Hey, whatever coping mechanism you need to get through the day is fine by me, up to the point you start imposing it on others, be it a religious person seeking to have laws conform to his beliefs or an alcoholic who drives drunk.

Not at all. You just don’t want to admit that it’s true, so you don’t; easy enough to understand. To the extent that any mind has faith, it is not rational; they are mutally exclusive.

Faith is not hard; it’s easy. You just don’t want to give up your security blanket. Facing the real world is much harder than faith. Facing that there’s no God to save you, no afterlife to hope for, that there’s no hidden greater purpose behind the suffering of the world, that praying won’t do you a bit of good; that’s harder than wrapping yourself in the delusion that God-Daddy will protect you, that everything is for the good despite appearances and that there’s something after death.

One point that concerns me is which God you have such faith in.

Do you believe in Jesus? Then what is your attitude to Judaism?

Are you Protestant? Then what is your attitude to the Pope?

And so on…

I think that you’ve demonstrated that faith is easy, in that you’ve given into it. But I don’t think you praying is any different from the fact that I like to eat tongue (cow tongue :slight_smile: ) and don’t like ham. That was the way I grew up.

The real question is whether you would do something that would adversely affect other people based on this faith you don’t really believe in. If not, I don’t think your beliefs are any more significant than a like for redheads over blondes.

Yeah, c’mon, join us, Dob. And the board will live as one.

Thank you. Any remark I might make about rejecting a generalised view of people of faith only to accept a negative generalisation of atheists would be, I assure you, directed solely at you and not at others.

The way I see it the plan that creates death & oppression is a misuse of God’s power by Satan. God’s plan is to rescue humanity from that fate. Just as God won’t force you to be loving, God won’t force that on Satan either, so Satan’s plan will continue to run till Jesus returns, which also effects us.

Fear is not of God, but of the flesh and/or Satan (depending on the circumstances). I suspect that fear has you believing just enough that you don’t go further and discover the real God. You commented others being brainwashed by religion, which indicates that you may think that’s the way to find God, it is not.

You know the stuff that’s telling you that you can’t rationally believe in god? It’s your brain, listen to it.

Religion is training wheels for your life, you’re a big kid, get rid of them.

That is kinda the point I was making. Knowing the world for what it is, and yet still having Faith is much harder than you give it credit for.

Point taken. My brush perhaps was a bit broad, but I was going for a picture from ten thousand feet, not two, and that takes a big brush. No offense intended.

Interesting. Let me think on that a bit and reply later on this one.

Nitpick: You mean, “attributed.”

For the rest: From A History of Western Philosophy (1945), by Bertrand Russell, Chapter XIX, “Rousseau”:

I have the opposite problem; I don’t find enough evidence of a lack of God to dismiss the possibility entirely, but there is certainly enough evidence to logically eliminate (via contradiction) most or all of the good scenarios that are presented that involve a god. So, nightmarish fear and horror plucks around the edges of my rational mind, whispering dire things that might inevitably await, if there is any basis whatsoever to theistic claims.

Being unable to fully dismiss the irrational belief that everything will turn out okay sounds pretty easy, really.

Good post, Dob, and know that you aren’t alone. I’ve been struggling with the same issues as you and I’m still not sure how to resolve them. Despite the local atheist crowd crowing about how simple it all is. :stuck_out_tongue:

That is an excellent quote, Brain Glutton. I wish I’d read it years ago.

If your faith requires you to do things you like to do, and act ways that you like to act, well, no, it’s not all that hard. If your faith requires you to do things you find difficult, and costly to yourself, and to act according to strict standards of conduct at levels you find difficult to achieve, then, yes, it can be quite hard. If your faith requires you to tell other people how to think, feel, and act, then that’s probably fairly easy on you, but harder on other people. The other people might choose to be hard on you, but that’s not faith, that’s theology.

Tris

No, because I was in the same position five or six years ago. It was a struggle to have faith. I wasn’t one of those people (I would have said blessed then, I would say closer to cursed now) for whom faith was as easy as breathing. I had to reject the whole idea of Jesus as anything but a fable to gain the tiniest bit of stability in the ole brainpan. I simply knew there was a God, absolutely knew it, while still being unable to examine the belief. I couldn’t think about it. Thinking about it was uncomfortable and embarrassing.

And then the problem of evil, the same thing you’re dealing with, finally smothered the faith right out of me.

From that experience I’m guessing it was such a struggle for me because it wasn’t who I really was. To use an analogy: I came out of the atheist closet, I guess. I was trying to fake a normal, straight relationship with God when I was really heterodox (language is fun). Once I accepted who I am, those problems went away.

And now I look at what I was doing to myself, the contortions I had to do, and I’m so puzzled. But I was right. I knew I was right.

People is weird.

The earth-centric model was difficult too. You had to make all sorts of weird calculations and assume that planets did loopdy-loops to make it work. Realizing that all the planets revolved around the sun made it much easier.

If you find faith hard maybe your mind is sending you a signal. I stopped believing in God in my early teens, and after a couple of difficult years I have never looked back.

No problem. Sorry to have been snarky.