Faking foreign accents

[QUOTE=ruadh]
I’m from Prince George’s County, Maryland, and I do not have a southern accent. Nor did most of the people I know from the other DC-suburb counties in Maryland, apart from a small handful of very poor, rural people.
Ruadh - I’m from PG too, and you know as well as I do, that there is a definite and unique PG county accent among many white natives. Once you’re familiar with it, it’s easy to distinguish from 'most every other American accent including the rest of the South & New England.

I’ve always been fascinated by how English seems to lend itself more readily to developing regional accents than many other languages. Most native English speakers can recognize at least a dozen, and there must be dozens more. I know native speakers of many other languages decern upper or lower class accents and country/urban accents in their own language, but do many languages behave like English in this regard?

Actually, no, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m also surprised to hear you say “the rest of the South”. Nobody I know considered us part of the South!

To the extent that’s true I’d imagine it’s mainly because English is more widely spoken as a first language than most other languages. There are certainly regional accents in Spanish and French, to name two of the few others as widely spoken.

I’d suggest that part of the reason for English seeming to have more accents is that we’re more able to identify them, through the obvious familiarity with the language that we (well, most of us) lack with others.

This has been discussed before, but I believe that French is maybe a bad example. While there are regional dialects in France, they are not as disparate as for example the dialects of German or Italian. Personally I believe that this comes from the fact that France has been ruled from Paris for around a millenia, and the Parisian dialect has been imposed on the countryside.
In Germany or Italy on the other hand the cities/districts/counties were more-or-less independent until 150 years ago, and developped very distinct dialects.

While it can be difficult for an average anglophone to understand serious scouse or mancunian this is pretty much the exception. Most English people can actually understand each other, although they may sound funny to each other. On the other hand I think that the average Milanese would have problems to communicate in Naples. (Although these differences are fast dissapearing in this modern televised age. It would have been interresting to do experiments like this 100 years ago!)

Half agree with you. Although the regional accent variations within France are not too pronounced (heh heh), the differences in accent and syntax (leaving aside vocabulary) between France, Quebec, Haiti, Cameroun etc. are pretty substantial, and can prevent French speakers from understanding each other without a lot of laborious repetition.

As regards Italian, I haven’t noticed any communication difficulties between Milanese and Napolitani based on accent differences, there are of course different dialects. OTOH I learned my Italian in Florence and Milan, and do personally have a hard time with southern Italian accents.

Getting back to the OP, I don’t think movie accents are supposed to ‘fool’ natives of the particular accent, they’re simply supposed to serve as theatrical cues - so ‘hammy’ can be good : "Hey, the Meryl Streep character’s Polish or something !’ You know, like those ‘guy eating croissant, wearing beret, in front of the Eiffel Tower’ shots…

Tim Roth in reservoir dogs had me fooled for a while though. And how about all those Canadians that are supposed to be Americans, suddenly seems like all the minor characters come from Minnesota or something.

violet9 writes:

> Ruadh - I’m from PG too, and you know as well as I do, that there is a definite
> and unique PG county accent among many white natives. Once you’re familiar
> with it, it’s easy to distinguish from 'most every other American accent including
> the rest of the South & New England.

May I suggest that you’re hopelessly out of date on this? First of all, Prince George’s County is 58% black, so your statement certainly applies to no more than 42% of the county. There has also been a lot of influx of whites from outside the county also. I consider myself a longtime resident of the county, since I’ve spent 20 of the last 23 years here, and yet I lived less than half my life in the county. I have many friends who are my age who’ve lived here all their life, and none of them speak with anything like a Southern accent. Yes, there is an accent that is common in Southern Maryland, occasionally heard in Baltimore and its suburbs, and rarely in Prince George’s County that sounds vaguely Southern, but it’s not remotely typical, and it’s getting rarer.

None of the Washington, D.C. suburbs are part of the South. The South starts fifty miles south of Washington. You should read The Nine Nations of North America by Joel Garreau. It’s a survey of the U.S., Canada, and the Caribbean to discover the true socio-cultural-political divisions. Washington and its suburbs are part of the Industrial Northeast (which Garreau calls the Foundry), not the South (which Garreau calls Dixie). If you Google on “Joel Garreau” and “The Nine Nations of North America” you’ll find a webpage that summarizes Garreau’s distinctions.

Those are the regional accents I was referring to… hence my use of the description of French as “widely spoken”.

Only 58%? I would have thought it would be higher by now.

The Mason/Dixon line runs along the border between Pennsylvania & Maryland - http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/us/A0832111.html. Maryland has historically been considered part of the South, and was when the accent I’m referring to developed. As I said, the accent can be found among white PG county natives. I am fully aware of the large black or recent population, I didn’t mention them because they don’t pertain to my statement. I made no assumption about the prevalence of the accent, only that it exists. I’m actually amazed that both of you are ignorant of it. Though it may be passing away with the next generation, I know dozens of people, many under 50, who have that distinctive sound. I guess we travel in different circles.

I have a friend who has a particularly pronounced PG accent - wish I could post a recording.

One last word on MD being the south http://www.shgresources.com/md/symbols/song/ the song was embraced by citizens of the state as a PROTEST against Union troops securing the state and preventing it from succeeding the union.

Yes, I know, but we always considered that the old north-south border, which was superseded by the Civil War: having fought for the North, we are therefore a northern state. I never even knew some people considered Maryland part of the south until I grew up and moved away.

As for this “PG accent”, what parts of PG is it found in?

Well, I’ll bet a lot of Marylanders would disagree with your statement regarding MD having fought for the north. I am not able to look into it more right now. The people I know personally with the most pronounced accents grew up in lower-middle class or working class neighborhoods. Places like Greenbelt, Hyattsville, Bladensburg, Colmar Manor, and further south in the county like Clinton, Waldorf, La Plata, etc. I don’t know what that means, exactly - except that perhaps the earlier populations with that accent eventually congregated in those areas for economic reasons.

Well perhaps that was an oversimplification. But it was a union state anyway.

And what era did they grow up in? I did have some working class friends from Hyattsville and Bladensburg and don’t remember any particular accent on them. I was born in 1970 and grew up in Kettering, BTW.

I’m not doubting you, I just really have never heard of this.

violet9 writes:

> Places like Greenbelt, Hyattsville, Bladensburg, Colmar Manor, and further south
> in the county like Clinton, Waldorf, La Plata, etc.

violet9, did you bother to read my location? I live in Greenbelt. I lived in Hyattsville for a while. People who live there do not speak with a Southern accent. Incidentally, Riverdale, Bladensburg, and parts of Hyattsville and College Park are becoming heavily Hispanic, so people there don’t even speak in a native American accent, let alone a Southern one. Further south, in Clinton, you will hear this semi-Southern accent occasionally. As for Waldorf and La Plata, they aren’t even in Prince George’s County. They are in Charles County. That’s part of Southern Maryland. Yes, as I said before, you do fairly often hear in Southern Maryland what you think of as an older Maryland accent, which does sound sort of borderline Southern. But, again, that’s only a very small proportion of Maryland.

ruadh writes:

> Only 58%? I would have thought it would be higher by now.

And I predict that it will never get any higher. Indeed, I predict that it will begin decreasing within a decade and Prince George’s County will again be majority white in about 2035. As you may know, Washington reached its highest proportion of black population (more than 70%) in the early 1970’s. That was essentially the end of the “Great Migration” (as it’s sometimes called), which is the movement of blacks from the South to northern cities from about 1930 to about 1975. There are actually now slightly more blacks moving from the South to the North than from the North to the South. The proportion of blacks in most Northern cities increased greatly from 1930 to 1975, and in some cities, like D.C., they became a majority. But by the early 1970’s this movement slowed down. Middle-class blacks began moving out to suburbs, often suburbs which then became majority black themselves. In the D.C. area, this meant blacks moving from D.C. to Prince George’s County. Meanwhile the inner cities started to become more white as whites began gentrifying the innermost neighborhoods. D.C. has dropped from over 70% black to under 60%. I predict that by 2025 it will again become majority white. Prince George’s County, which in about 1950 was thought of as working-class white (who often spoke in semi-Southern accents), has become 58% black. Indeed, the blacks who have moved in are actually slightly more well off than the whites who moved out (often to Southern Maryland), so Prince George’s County is richer than it was in the 1950’s. But now there’s little movement of blacks out of D.C. into Prince George’s County. There is starting to be a movement of whites from Montgomery County to Prince George’s County, since even Silver Spring is too expensive for many people to live in. I predict this will accelerate, and northern Prince George’s County will become nearly well off as Montgomery County. By 2035, the county will again be majority white.

Was the show “Without a Trace”? His brother Jonathon was also in a series “7 Days”.

Here is a list of Aussies currently working overseas. Most Americans I’ve come across have no idea many of these well known actors are actually Aussies, so their American accents must be passable.

I have yet to hear an American do a decent Aussie accent.

Thanks for that, Wendell. I guess I was just making assumptions based on Kettering’s demographics. I looked it up recently and it’s something like 90% black now.

(insert usual disclaimers about just being curious, not critical)

In my last post I wrote:

> There are actually now slightly more blacks moving from the South to the North
> than from the North to the South.

I meant to write:

> There are actually now slightly more blacks moving from the North to the South
> than from the South to the North.

Wendell - Great - you live in Greenbelt. So does my friend mentioned above - I’ll give you her number and you can hear the accent for yourself. I don’t know why you think your lengthy refutations of my personal experience are convincing. I don’t care if PG is now filled with immigrant aliens, fact is - there still exists a local accent among some longtime residents of the county. The fact that you refuse to even contemplate the possibility doesn’t change that. You’re correct about some of the areas I mentioned being in Charles county - but that’s all you’re right about.

Rud - since you grew up here, maybe you just don’t notice the accent. I do think that it’s passing away because of the huge influx of people from elsewhere, but up until just a few decades ago, PG was still very much a rural, agricultural backwater - even with it’s proximity to Washington. We are so use to everyone in Washington being from somewhere else. I have sometimes been struck by the fact that I know so many people whose families have lived in PG since anyone can remember - that’s really unusual around here.

On the other hand, his Indian accent in “The Party” was a joke. (As was Alec Guinness’s Indian accent in “A Passage to India.”)

It’s this kind of generalism that results in bad accents. There are plent of examples of English actors getting the accent wrong.

I was thinking about Jude Law’s American accent in “I Heart Huckabees.” I don’t remember it being so much “wrong” as it was “labored.” You could really hear him trying to get the accent right.

And then there was Nicola Bryant’s American accent in “Dr. Who” – ugh, possibly the worst ever.

In the case of British productions, it’s often a case that the accent sounds American enough, but the word choice is completely British – that also results in a clanking inauthenticity.

On the show “Without a Trace”, both Anthony LaPaglia and Poppy Montgomery are Australians, yet to my ear they both sound authentically American.

Ed

I think the standardbearer for bad American accents amongst Brit actors is Ralph Fiennes. His accent in *Quiz Show * was lost somewhere over the middle of the Atlantic and his accent in *Maid in Manhattan * (I only watched ten minutes, I promise!) was dire as well. He seems to think An American accent is a British accent delivered through his nose.