I saw this blog post linked to today on Facebook. It’s “How Might Christians Respond To The Question of Homosexual Marriage?” and basically says that they should respond by saying it’s wrong, but they should say it politely. The post isn’t really relevant to this thread, it’s just that the last sentence is the one that made me start this thread:
This made me think about how almost any time a politician or celebrity talks about how terrible and destructive homosexuality is, they’ll also say something about how they have gay friends. Dan Savage pointed out the same thing a few years ago in this post.
I was wondering if anyone has ever talked to any of these gay friends. It would be interesting to hear what they think about the homophobe, and how they reconcile their friendship and the homophobe’s views. Of course I’m guessing that in most cases that the “gay friends” don’t actually exist, or that maybe they are just acquaintances who act civil.
If I was an outspoken advocate of white supremacy and didn’t think black people should have the same rights as white people, I don’t think I’d have many black friends. That’s not a matter of having differing views; it’s a matter of thinking someone different from me doesn’t deserve what I enjoy.
So PurpleClogs, yes, I think friends can have drastically opposing views on a subject and still be friends. But what does that have to do with this discussion?
Of course people can have drastically different views and still be friends. And I assume most gay people have some friends that are at least somewhat homophobic, or maybe even very homophobic. But a homophobic politician doesn’t just have differing views than a gay person, the homophobic politician is often actively trying to prevent the gay person from having equal rights.
Eh, I’d say usually the homophobic politician is cynically trying to snare the idiocractic vote by talking a lot about preventing gay people from having equal rights, and doing just enough to maintain that appearance. Sure, sometimes it results in actual denial of rights, but the important thing is to leverage fear and loathing to pry votes out of the unwashed masses – the rights damage is collateral.
My father in law opposes marriage equality and his goddamn daughter is a lesbian who has been in a long term relationship for almost ten years. People are spectacular assholes; even to those that they love.
Some people just don’t feel real strongly about it either way. It’s complex. Hence the controversy. I can empathize with both sides. And my Sis-in-law is a lesbian. It doesn’t make me an asshole that I’m not fighting her particular fight. (I honestly don’t even know how she feels about it)
I actually support it. Although I wish the legal part for all couples, gay or straight, would be called something different. But my relationships with people aren’t based on me being Christian, pro this, anti that, conservative, republican, or a certain race. That was my main point.
I can certainly happen and I know for a fact it does. I grew in a tiny Southern town where some of the usual stereotypes hold true but not in the ways you would always expect. We had gays, lesbians and we were about equally split between whites (about half of whom were openly racist) and blacks. You wouldn’t think that would be a good mix but you would be surprisingly mistaken except in a few cases. Everyone got along for the most part.
There are a few terms for the phenomenon. One is ‘Hate the sin but love the sinner’ and the 'I love the person but hate the group they belong to". Gays weren’t openly accepted when I grew up there in the 1980’s but we had the openly gay couple that nobody talked about. They were two of the most prominent citizens and everyone liked them. They were pillars of the community. Most of the self-proclaimed white racists almost certainly had more close and dear black friends than you do. Everyone just mixed together. I am told now that my hometown is quite the hotbed of homosexual activity with people coming out of the closet left and right. The people that were always friends with them still are.
It was more about the idea of different groups that people were opposed to rather than the reality. It is actually completely different in my lily white suburb here in the Boston area. They claim to love all groups as an idea but you hardly ever see people casually mixing freely in large numbers like they did where I grew up.
I doubt their sincerity. I live in liberal California, and I only have two friends who I suspect are closeted homosexuals. I really don’t have any out friends.
There have been many cases where religious leaders and very conservative Republicans, who are adamantly against homosexuality, are later discovered not only to indeed have Gay friends, but also Gay sex partners.
You also have the phenomenon where the known individual is easier to acept than the amorphous (and scary) group. i.e. All gays are…, all blacks are…, all asians are… EXCEPT so-and-so, he’s is different.
Famous people don’t have political convictions; they have political instincts. That’s how they make a living off us slobs and our quaint convictions, be they pro or con gay, abortion, etc. The gold standard of this was Talleyrand, who was not a monarchist or a republican or a Bonapartist; just good at making himself indespensible.
When Rush Limbaugh socialized with Camilia Paglia back in the early '90s (when their careers were on an even level), he didn’t see a post-feminist lesbian academic (anathema X3 to his listenership) he saw another famous blatherskite like himself. It’s just a big game to these people, and they admire the other players in their league; not just on their team. And we admire them, though I doubt the feeling is mutual.
This. My answer to the OP would be, “well, many of the most rabid would, like most of us, surely consider themselves to be their own friends, in a way…”
I disagree with my friends sometimes, but I never advocate using the force of the state to cause them harm.. and then expect them to be OK with that. In general I do not attempt to use state violence to push a personal agenda on behalf any institution or belief system that has no place in civil society.
I couldn’t be friends with a person that believed I was less than human and worthy of less than basic human dignity. Nor would I treat a friend in such a way.