Hidy ho - short time lurker, first time poster here. One of those “been meaning to register but just never do” types.
I’ll admit I haven’t read all three pages of this thread, so I hope I’m not repeating anyone. But I just have to say…
I have enjoyed both FOTR and LOTR movies very much, and am anxiously awaiting going to see ROTK. No, I haven’t read the books YET. It’s on my list of things to do…honest! And I certainly agree that everyone can have an opinion, as long as it’s not shoved down one’s throat as the only correct one.
I look at the whole Tolkien/Jackson debate like this. It would be the same (to me). as a David Eddings fan, if Mr. Jackson or whomever tried to make The Belgariad or The Mallorean into a movie trilogy. While I think it would be a wonderful thing, the full effect of the book is just not obtainable on the screen. But that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be a good movie in it’s own right. Same goes with a Stephen King book versus a Stephen King movie…it always loses some appeal in the translation.
Alrighty then, I feel much better now. I’ll return you to your regularly scheduled programming, and I look forward to getting to know all of you!
I rather thought the point of the scene was to show a callous and cold attitude towards what appears to be Faramir’s imminent death, and the image of one man eating alone in a great hall reinforces the feeling that Denethor is isolated and alone. The tomatoes were presumably chosen for their blood-like juice… and I hope as a small in-joke. (there probably shouldn’t be New World foods in Middle Earth, but both potatoes and pipe-weed/tobacco get mentioned in the books)
He’s not an obnoxious fanboy, he’s just trying to impress his mom. That’s cool. I hope she listened, and maybe even asked some questions. Can you imagine his thrill if she went home and read the books?
My kids are in their 30’s, but they still bloom when they can do something that we can’t, or be first with some knowledge.
Sorry gobear, but a lot of the changes don’t seem justified in terms of translating a book to film (which I understand) but translating the story to goofy Hollywood cliches. A lot the changes were jarring purely on a level of being silly: replacing Tolkien’s words with cliche-ridden Hallmark dialouge simply doesn’t blow me over as being great cinema. “No parent should have to outlive his child”?! “Toss me” I mean, that stuff was just painfully dumb and unecessary, and worst of all ordinary pedestrian screenwriting. The reason I bitch is because the movies were so good that I wanted them to attain perfection, and it would have been so so easy to do so. It’s irritating seeing a huge pimple on the nose of an otherwise pretty lass.
The BBC radio production cut and changed quite alot, but they seemed to have a far better sense of what the story was about and how to convey it in a short amount of time with stuff that at least sounded in the same vein as the other stuff from Tolkien. And it didn’t manage to make me roll my eyes. It’s possible to portray characters that care about each other and things without giving them dialouge straight out of an Oprah testimonial.
Still, I have high hopes for RotK. I just hope that the next time someone makes this movie, they don’t make Arwen’s appearance at the ford look like a tampon commercial, or have her burst into unumbered tears of grief at the injury of a guy she only met for a few minutes a few hours ago.
The TTT:EE explains the change of his character, which I would say focuses on two main points.
[hijack]
One is chronological synchronicity. The end of The Two Towers Book IV — the tower of Cirith Ungol — is actually some time in the future of the end of Book III: the defeat of Isengard, the palantír, and Gandalf whisking Pippin away to Gondor. The exciting events at Cirith Ungol (no spoilers) would have competed with the events at Helm’s Deep for the audience’s attention, and as a result, they might have sapped the film of its power and exhausted the audience if the two scenes were intercut.
Chronologically, this means Faramir is intercut with Helm’s Deep. However, it simply wouldn’t work to use Faramir as he’s written. Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are fighting for their lives one minute; the next, Faramir is offering the hobbits some nice cold water to wake up with, giving them walking sticks and plenty of apples and bread to take with them, giving them helpful advice, and suddenly we’re back to the fight and noise of a pitched battle. It just wouldn’t work.
Instead, they chose to introduce some quiet suspense so the pace of the movie wasn’t damaged.
The second reason is that Faramir, as a literary character, makes no journey and has no arc of development. He begins pure and good, and he ends pure and good. We understand this in the books because we know what it means that Faramir has the air of Nùmenor about him; we can hear in a few lines that Denethor distrusts Faramir simply because he’s Gandalf’s favorite: those things can be communicated quickly in a book, but not so efficiently on film.
Film is driven — and believe me, Tolkien would understand this, his works are full of this theme of conscious will — by character choices. Having Frodo happen to encounter a really nice guy who gives him stuff and sends him on his way, well, not much of a choice happening. To give Faramir a conscious way to drive the story, they put him in the worst possible position: halfway between success and failure, between returning Frodo on his way and sending him and the Ring to Gondor, halfway between Mordor and Gondor, and they show us as Faramir makes a decision to do the right thing. They make us wait for the Cinematic Sweet Spot, the Last Possible Minute before he has to choose. That’s how movies work, really.
Anyway, sorry for the [/hijack]. Oh, and… um… (this is the Pit?)… fuck.
Blessedwolf, the only reason that Elvish sounds so damn good coming from Aragorn, is because the actor Viggo Mortenson, speaks three languuages fluently and he has a way of picking up the language faster then the others. But I still like the way that Liv speaks it, sounds nice coming from her.
