Farage on Trump

[Quartz]

Telegraph article here.

Some pertinent excerpts:

While Trump and Clinton may be the most unpopular presidential candidates ever, there has been a growing distrust of the political class. Just as in the UK, where cash for questions and the MPs’ expenses scandals lead to a chorus of uproar, the elites in Washington are seen as remote and detached.

I saw a fanatical gathering of his fans who want to give the Establishment a good hiding. “We want our country back” works as a slogan here, too.

Not only did JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs help to fund the Remain campaign but they increasingly give the appearance of owning a whole section of our political class. When Berlusconi was forced to resign as the Italian prime minister, he was replaced by the unelected Mario Monti, a Goldman Sachs man.

In the American rust belt, traditional manufacturing industries have declined, and it is to these people that Trump speaks very effectively, since they have all but given up hope of Washington.

To them must be added the small businesses and sole traders in both the UK and America. Every small business feels put-upon by the sheer volume and weight of regulation. Our new hyper-regulated world makes it tough for the little people to compete with the business giants. These people want deregulation, and Trump is promising them that. Many feel they have nothing to lose in voting for him.

[Morgenstern]

He called Trump a “big silverback gorilla” prowling the stage? (debate 2 reference)
What, is he colorblind or is silver the new orange?

[PatrickLondon]

@Morgenstern

He called Trump a “big silverback gorilla”… is he colorblind or is silver the new orange?

And after all the work that’s gone into reframing the general public’s view of gorillas. David Attenborough must be furious.

And to call him an orange ape would be to defame orang-utans too.

[Quartz]

@Morgenstern

What, is he colorblind or is silver the new orange?

Men do have a higher incidence of colour-blindness.

Anyway, I think it’s a seriously interesting article. Trump could be Ming the Merciless and still get the same votes.

[Stanislaus]

Eh, it’s the usual Farage blend of a small grain of truth, wishful thinking, paranoid populism and delusion:

1. There is disillusion with the political class. Whether the success of Farage and Trump’s campaigns - largely based on the claim that politicians can’t be trusted - can be said to be effect of this, or cause, is a knotty question.
2. The Goldman Sachs conspiracy theory - they donated to a political campaign! Someone who worked for them went into politics! - isn’t what you’d call fleshed out, but as a way of blaming the ordinary person’s woes on a shadowy cabal of international financiers, I’m sure it’s effective.
3. If Trump were speaking very effectively to the rust-belt states, he’d be winning in more of them.
4. Could be wrong, but I don’t recall hearing a lot from Trump about the evils of regulation - sounds more like a boilerplate Farage complaint. Also, there are many reasons small businesses struggle to compete with big ones, most of which revolve around them being small, not big.
5. He also ignores, of course, one of the major elements of Trump’s appeal, which is fear of “those communities”, Muslims, and immigrants. It’s not like Farage to miss a chance to speak about this issue.

[Procrustus]

Every small business feels put-upon by the sheer volume and weight of regulation

That part is just a myth. I have owned several small businesses, some successful, some not. Government “regulation” was never really an issue. Occasionally it’s a pain in the ass, but most of the time it’s no big deal at all. I’ve never seen it cause a real problem (although I suppose for some industries it could, but he said “every small business.”)

[Psychopants]

@Procrustus

That part is just a myth. I have owned several small businesses, some successful, some not. Government “regulation” was never really an issue. Occasionally it’s a pain in the ass, but most of the time it’s no big deal at all. I’ve never seen it cause a real problem (although I suppose for some industries it could, but he said “every small business.”)

How recently did you own a small business?

[up_the_junction]

There’s nothing new in the OP.

Fwiw, he’s about on the money - people on both sides of the pond feel desperately unrepresented. Trump is a symptom of that as is Sanders, as is Corbyn.

tbh, I think that has been largely addressed as far as the UK Parliament is concerned, and Brexit addresses much of the rest of that issue but the USA … is a democracy gone way wrong. Party policy is bought and paid for, politicians are bought and paid for.

[Procrustus]

@Psychopants

How recently did you own a small business?

I own two right now. A small law firm and another, unrelated, small LLC. The LLC is in a small upscale community with lots of land use regulations that are a pain in the ass at time (we needed permission to recondition the concrete floor), but they don’t “crush” us.

[PatrickLondon]

@up_the_junction

There’s nothing new in the OP.

Fwiw, he’s about on the money - people on both sides of the pond feel desperately unrepresented. Trump is a symptom of that as is Sanders, as is Corbyn.

tbh, I think that has been largely addressed as far as the UK Parliament is concerned, and Brexit addresses much of the rest of that issue

I disagree. Parliament and the political process hasn’t changed one bit, nor will Brexit - in any conceivable form - affect the underlying structural problems* one bit.

*The mismatch of politicians’ backgrounds and ability to respond quickly enough to structural economic and social change and explain the process in ways that are perceived to chime with the expectations placed upon them. “Stop the world, I want to get off” just won’t wash.

[Robot_Arm]

@Quartz

Not only did JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs help to fund the Remain campaign but they increasingly give the appearance of owning a whole section of our political class. When Berlusconi was forced to resign as the Italian prime minister, he was replaced by the unelected Mario Monti, a Goldman Sachs man.

@Stanislaus

2. The Goldman Sachs conspiracy theory - they donated to a political campaign! Someone who worked for them went into politics! - isn’t what you’d call fleshed out, but as a way of blaming the ordinary person’s woes on a shadowy cabal of international financiers, I’m sure it’s effective.

Voters are suspicious that someone from a large business went into politics, so to put a stop to that kind of thing they want the head of TrumpCo to be President?

Makes about as much sense as anything else on the right these days. I thought places like Goldman Sachs were full of brave Job Creators making the world perfect through the magic of Capitalism. It’s a thankless job, with no real rewards to speak of, so we have to give them incentives to keep up their noble word.

[up_the_junction]

@PatrickLondon

I disagree. Parliament and the political process hasn’t changed one bit, nor will Brexit - in any conceivable form - affect the underlying structural problems* one bit.

I can only say you are wholly detached from how politics now works at national level in the UK.

[Sage_Rat]

@Procrustus

That part is just a myth. I have owned several small businesses, some successful, some not. Government “regulation” was never really an issue. Occasionally it’s a pain in the ass, but most of the time it’s no big deal at all. I’ve never seen it cause a real problem (although I suppose for some industries it could, but he said “every small business.”)

I don’t know about the UK, but as far as I’m aware there’s a slew of regulations in the US that only come into effect when your business reaches a certain size (often a particular employee count). Government tends to go out of its way to protect small, single-owner businesses because 1) it’s impractical to expect them to follow rigorous regulations since they won’t have an on-call lawyer to help them, and 2) because voters will boot you out ASAP if you look like you’re in the hands of big business.

[Hari_Seldon]

@up_the_junction

[snip] but the USA … is a democracy gone way wrong. Party policy is bought and paid for, politicians are bought and paid for.

Or as I like to put it, congress answers to its true constituents–those who pay for their elections.

[Quartz]

@Sage_Rat

I don’t know about the UK, but as far as I’m aware there’s a slew of regulations in the US that only come into effect when your business reaches a certain size (often a particular employee count).

I believe this is also true of the UK, but we’re somewhat confused:

[

@Towergate Insurance

According to the UK’s Companies Act 2006 a small company is defined as one that does not have a turnover of more than £6.5million, a balance sheet total of more than £3.26 million and not more than 50 employees. While a medium-sized company is one with less than 250 employees and a turnover of under £12.9 million.

](Standard Definition for Small Businesses | Towergate)
[

@UK Parliament briefing paper (pdf)

The usual definition of small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) is any business with fewer than 250 employees. There were 5.2 million SMEs in the UK in 2014, which was over 99% of all business.
Micro-businesses are business with 0-9 employees. There were 5.0 million micro-businesses in the UK in 2014, accounting for 96% of all businesses.

](http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn06078.pdf)

[

@The Company Warehouse

While there is growing focus on the importance of the SME sector there is one very large fundamental problem with it. That problem is that even with the UK government there is not a single definition of what a small or medium enterprise is. For the purpose of Research and Development Tax Relief HMRC define an SME as a business with not more than 500 employees and an annual turnover not exceeding £100 million. However the rest of the UK government does not use this definition. For the purposes of collecting statistics the Department for Business defines SMEs as companies with less than 250 employees. For accounting purposes Companies House defines a small business as employing less than 50 people and a turnover under £6.5 million and a medium business as less than 250 employees and a turnover under £25.9 million.

](Definitions of Small and Medium Business in the UK)

And then there’s the EU definition as well!