Now, if a cop sees an almanac and a Koran in the car, I’m sure friend Cheesesteak would approve if the officer immediately arrested the suspected terrorist and tossed him over to the FBI.
You mean like non-citizen mid-easterners taking lessons on how to fly airliners and then someone…
Did you read the OP? It said that the FBI was asking police to “be alert for people carrying almanacs.” Not “suspicious people” carrying almanacs. People. Carrying. Almanacs.
Now how do you suppose local law enforcement is supposed to interpret this other than as a warning to “be alert for” carriers of a particular kind of informational publication?
This is just more of the ignorant bullshit non-warning that the FBI specializes in. A high-profile memo that makes them look like they actually have a clue as to what they’re doing.
In the meantime it attempts to foster suspicion against people carrying A BOOK, for chissakes! No, it’s not Farenheit 451. But it’s a small potential step in the direction of a less free and open (and no more secure) society.
I don’t like the idea of being deemed suspicious for lugging around a reference book anymore than the rest of you, but surely if/when an officer of the law does use such a book as a reason to search you/your car/house/whatever - and you’re NOT using it for any illegal purposes that will be obvious quickly enough in most cases? And if it does turn up some kind of illegal activity aren’t we all the better for it?
Anyway, chances are police and suchlike have been trained for years to lookout for this sort of thing when investigating - and this is just a reminder, because instances of it are probably uncommon, that maps/reference materials CAN (not ARE) be used to help in the planning of terrorist attacks (and doubtless many other crimes). Officers who rigidly stick to their training probably already recalled that these things might lead to something.
This memo is a product of the times we’re living in. It kinda sucks that it has to exist, yeah, in a lot of ways it sucks to be us right now, but this is nothing like the reasons behind the banning of books in F.451. If I recall correctly, books were banned in that book because they encouraged the use of your imagination, the freedom of thought and creativity, thus fostering ideas of revolution and of your rights to oppose your government etc etc.
I’m sitting behind my desk at a bookstore right now, reckon I’ll go and annotate everything until it looks suspicious - starting with the thesaurus.
Oh great…just waiting for paranoid school districts to start shipping all of their almanacs to the police in fear of being labeled as terrorist training camps. Especially since those kids just keep looking things up in them…ANY ONE OF THEM could be a terrorist.
Go ahead and laugh, I live on the front lines of the Harry Potter, Goosebumps, and Judy Blume wars. If school districts pullChato’s Kitchen as gang related, I can see this becoming a major issue to paranoid administrators and removing them despite the screaming protests of their librarians.
I’d like to make the point that analogies need not be arbitrarily precise or literal in order to be useful.
Yes, I know that in Farenheit 451 the reasons given for burning books were unlike anything in the OP. But an FBI memo implying that carrying a particular book is by itself worthy of increased suspicion, is creepy and eerily reminiscent of Bradbury’s novel.
The “I’m sure they know what they’re doing” stance is contraindicated by the FBI’s response to, for example, the anthrax scare. They don’t know what they’re doing. They’re releasing memos like this to make the public think that they do.
And the combination of a president who doesn’t read newspapers with a DOJ agency warning about possession of a certain book is just a little bit worrisome.
In the late 80’s I was pulled over on a Mississippi highway for speeding and when the police finished pointing their guns at us and screaming, they searched my car. There was none of that, “May I look…”, it was “get the fuck away from your car while I search it”. Lo and behold, I had two books in the trunk describing how to make bombs. Some shit I bought from a survivalist place that I figured would make good coffee table books. When it got to “Why do you have these type of books”, I smart mouthed about how I thought the First Amendment applied to Miss. also. I can’t imagine this happening now. The cop probably would have called the FBI and I would have ended up in Cuba.
The Farmer’s Almanac web site has a press release on its homepage.
“If they are looking for a mean recipe for apple pie, how to simplify their lives, what to do if they get ink on their clothes, what the weather might be like on February 29, or how to beat and eat weeds, then yes, terrorists might be interested in our Farmers’ Almanac,” states Editor and Philom., Peter Geiger.
I propose we all purchase a pocket edition of the Farmer’s Almanac and carry it in our back pockets, shirt pockets, or anywhere else so that it can be seen by the FBI, the Police, any other paranoid person, as well as sane people.
So where do you draw the line between “reasonable safety precaution” and “excessive harassment”? I mean, you could make the same argument about random searches of people’s homes (“If you’re innocent, what do you have to fear?”), but somehow I don’t think you’d be all gung-ho at the idea of law enforcement officials ringing you up at 10 in the evening because they heard rumors you may be harboring terrorists and would like to stomp through your home and check things out.
Fascism doesn’t come about solely because a gang of jack-booted thugs pop up on your doorstop one morning; it can also arrive if you’re willing to give away your freedoms, one grain at a time…
The thing is, I live in a country where people are pulled over for the dreaded crime of DWB, “Driving While Black”. I live in a county where a white man heavily involved in beating a black man to death (Johnny Gammage – I’m not buying the “death by suffocation” verdict) and the death of at an exgirlfriend whom he physically abused has been reinstated to the police force. I’m white, but I will not spend money or drive in his town. There are people in this country who are quick to consider someone immoral because they aren’t Christian. I’ve had coworkers say everyone who wasn’t born in the US should be deported. Granted it was in the heat of the moment after September 11th, but it sure sounded to me like they meant it until after I pointed out to them that, if that happened, it was going to be harder for me to fix their database. A friend of mine writes science and military fiction. He plots terrorist activities for a living, if you will. Then there are those quiz bowl geeks who I hang out with.
Sorry, I understand the desire to make one’s job easier and more efficient. I certainly spend enough of my professional time trying to do just that. The problem is, to me, this is a false efficiency, one which is likely to provide far more false alarms than actual hits, especially when factoring in human nature. I agree with Ben Franklin (at least, I think it was him), who said, “Those who sacrifice liberty in the name of security deserve neither.”
CJ
[Heinlein reference]
Whatch out, Americans, Nehemia Scudder is around the corner.
[/HR]
I think we should be suspicious of the FBI. What with their releasing of that terrorist aid guide called The World Fact Book. And the CIA and their leaking of sensitive information about their operatives into a newspaper that any old terrorist could read! And how about that Ashcroft guy? Recusing himself from that investigation. Looks damned suspicious to me. I bet you he’s got a Farmer’s Almanac and The World Fact Book in his house and office, all annointed and everything. Probably with multi-colored highligts.
The only one who doesn’t look suspicious is George W himself. He actually admitted he doesn’t read.
In the future, please refrain from outright lies on the SDMB. From the article that you linked and quoted (emphasis added for the reading impaired):
Feel free to withdraw your hysterical screed at any point.
How is our society less free and open now? Do you really think this equates to a prohibition on reading maps and almanacs? Do you really expect that people will stop reading or carrying almanacs or maps for fear of being arrested? Fuck, do you really think that anyone’s going to be arrested merely for having an almanac or map? If so, please let me know so I can promptly ignore your wacko blathering.
And I’d like to make the point that analogies need to have some relevance to be useful.
How do you know whether or not the FBI knows what it’s doing? All due respect, but between our nation’s premier law enforcement agency, and some poster that’s incapable of reading an entire article (which he quoted in its entirety), I’m not having any trouble choosing the FBI’s opinion on this crime-related matter over your neurotic howling.
Age Quod Agis, if you believe that being on the lookout for people will maps and almanacs will make us safer, you’re the one being hysterical.
My former employer routinely sends out complementary copies of the Farmer’s Almanac every year as holiday gifts to various people it likes – officers of its allied organizations, members of Congress, and the like.
It seems quite silly that by doing so they put these people at risk for being targeted by the FBI.
The possession of an ordinary, everyday object cannot reasonably be treated as “probable cause” to treat someone as a potential criminal. If this sort of thing continues, I see no reason to believe that, before long, everyone will be subject to arbitrary arrest and search. The last time that happened, the American people went to war against their government, and won.
Really? Maps and almanacs can’t be used in terrorist attacks? You’re joking, right? Please tell me I’m being wooshed.
Or are you complaining because the FBI is now on the lookout for things which could also be used innocently (a point which the FBI acknowledged)? If so, then I guess we shouldn’t also be on the lookout for large quantities of fertilizer being shipped to an individual’s apartment in a downtown city, or blueprints of federal buildings with load-bearing walls marked with red Xs, or flight manuals and boxcutters when passengers are boarding planes.
Get a grip, people. “Be on the lookout for suspicious use of ____” is not the same thing as “Do not allow the use of ____.”
Please show me where Cheesesteak or anyone else suggested this. Or else please keep the strawmen to yourself.
I realize this is the Pit, but you’re better than this, rjung.
I don’t want to point out a specific poster, but from reading these boards for a while I find it a contradiction that the persons who most stubbornly defend ‘the right to bear arms’, ‘the life of innocent unborn babies’, and ‘the right to have as little to do with the federal government and nothing at all to do with all those creeps in the UN’, are the same that think that it’s a good thingsfederal law enforcement agencies can do arbitrary searches on anyone appearing suspicious (i.e. towl-heads) in the name of security. What scared, petty little people you guys are.
I mistyped. I meant to say that I see no reason NOT to believe that, before long, everyone will be subject to arbitrary search and arrest.
Stupid typo, totally reverses the meaning of what I meant to say.
And the FBI memo didn’t say “watch for suspicious use of almanacs”, it said “watch for people with almanacs”. That’s license to annoy, plain and simple.
What a disgusting post.
First, who here used the phrase “towelhead”? Just you? Well, I’d ask you to keep your racist bullshit off these boards.
Second of all, I’d encourage you link to any post wherein I defended the “life of innocent unborn babies,” the “right to bear arms,” or “the right to have as little to do with the federal government and nothing at all to do with those creeps in the UN.” Wait, I haven’t posted those things, have I? So you’re just making things up? Again, your strawmen are belong to us.
Third, who here is scared? Me, who thinks that maps and almanacs can be used in terrorist attacks and thinks it’s a good idea to let our law enforcement personnel know about it? Or the people crowing about an infringement on our civil rights, when no one is taking anything away from us or expanding the scope or powers of law enforcement?
Fourth, law enforcement should be able to perform searches on anyone appearing suspicious, as mandated by the law in the United States. It’s something called “probable cause.” And I’m not saying the feds should be able to search your car if they find you’ve got a map. However, if the circumstances give rise to probable cause, then obviously, they should be able to perform a search, and the search would not be “arbitrary.”
So you’ve said I’m fear mongering, called me a racist, called me petty, said my positions are inconsistent, and said I’m a coward – none of which are based on anything I’ve actually posted.
Yes, I’ll be sure to pay close attention to your posts in the future.