People keep saying that Lorraine mentioned Roy being raped in prison. But I was watching for that, and I didn’t hear it. She mentioned beating, and humiliation. My sense was that she had paid these guys to make sure he lived in fear and pain, subservient to everyone around him, instead of ruling the school as he had clearly expected to do.
What part of the conversation made you think she had paid them to rape him? What did I miss?
Lorraine mentioned that she was putting a little extra cash in their commissary accounts for “vaseline, Vienna Sausages, that kind of thing”. Take that as you will.
She also leaves him a pack of cigarettes which is a nod to smoking after sex. She could have given him the pack because of the cigarettes-are-currency-in-jail thing, but that kind of generosity seems a lot less in-character for Lorraine than using them as a prop to punctuate what his future will be like with one last insulting turn of the knife. And a wink.
She’s not a good person. She’s wealthy person who uses debt to hurt others. She weaponizes debt throughout the whole series. Setting this guy up to be prison raped and tortured is right within her character. After the torture he’s inflicted upon women, I think Lorraine saw this as a fitting payment for him, the audience’s feelings notwithstanding. She has power, she has leverage, and she’s not a good person. She represents vengeance, not grace. What’s the nastiest possible vengeance she could inflict upon Roy? Not death. Humiliation, sexual abuse, forced submission, weakness. I don’t understand why the writers wouldn’t go there… just because prison rape is no joking matter? This wasn’t a “don’t drop the soap, hyuk, hyuk” moment. It was the ultimate vengeance.
It was, I think, more than just an abstract sense of justice for Lorraine. It looked like she genuinely was worried about Danish’s safety, and shaken by his death. He wasn’t just an employee, she cared about him.
You can talk as much as you want about how bad prison rape is and how it isn’t even “allowable” to joke about it, but I abso-frigging-loutely guarantee to you that a very large percentage of Americans who have lost a loved one would gleefully arrange for the murderer to be raped in prison if it was within their means.
Absolutely, but that doesn’t make her a good person, either. That people will submit to their baser instincts does not make those instincts morally good.
It was not about any sort of justice. I think she’d laugh at the idea that there is any objective justice in the world. She already stated her position earlier - ‘justice’ is whatever wealthy and powerful people like her want it to be.
She decided to punish Tillman to satisfy her own personal desire. And that could absolutely include personal regard for the people in her circle. Naturally that means family but also close associates. And her personal wealth meant she could afford whatever personal “justice” she desired. That her idea of a fitting punishment is consistent with other people’s notion would just be a bonus.
That contrasts directly with the back half of the episode with Dot and Munch. Dot speaks for grace and forgiveness of debts while Lorraine insists on personal vengeance and is the literal debt queen. Even when Dot shot Tillman, it was because it was necessary, not to satisfy a personal desire. She saw no need to keep him alive to punish him with further humiliation or to take personal pleasure from it. She saw a sick person who had to be put down in order to stay safe and to keep the people important to her safe.
Dot was trying to convince a deadly and possibly insane man sitting in her living room to maybe stop trying to kill her and possibly her family. She might have been less eager to let bygones be bygones if she was called to testify in a trial for his many murders.
The vaseline part I get. But Vienna sausages?
Dick imagery?
If you’re going for that, you want to use kielbasas or something. Vienna sausages are the least threatening cocktail franks.
I’m sorry, I’m sorry! I started this whole train of thought, now please can we let it stop?
Not after you used the sentence “Vienna sausages are the least threatening cocktail franks.” we can’t.
Is there really anything left to say? LOL!
I suppose yes, I see what you all are saying. I didn’t connect that to the part where she told him what she’d paid them to do to him. Whatever. I don’t agree with the eye-for-an-eye mentality. But more wife-beaters need to fear prison.
Rape was only implied. And it wasnt the threat of debt, it was forgiving debt. And he deserves at least a few beatings. I mean, he bragged how how good it was for him in prison (after joining the aryan brotherhood).
No, not good at all, except maybe a glimmer now with Dot. But not evil on Tillman level.
Campaign contributions make the world go around.
Oh, so she “follows the law” except when she doesn’t. And that’s ok because …reasons
Got it
Bottom line - she is not a good person. Just because, for purely personal reasons, she decided to punish an even worse person does not change that. It rather misses the point of the show to think otherwise
She was commenting on how small a man he was about to become.
You know, I totally whiffed on the Aryan Brotherhood thing. I was wondering what prompted Roy to get a neck tattoo. It didn’t seem in character for him. But if he was forced to by the AB, that makes sense.
And this is why we love ya, @Dung_Beetle.
It’s possible that Roy Tillman ends up running the Aryan Brotherhood in prison. Here’s a quote from a Hollywood Reporter interview with Noah Hawley
You believe Dot is going to visit Gator. Do you believe Lorraine is really going to do all she said to Roy?
I’ve now told 51 hours of story about the evils of capitalism, and unfortunately, my money’s on capitalism. Desperate people always have a price. So I don’t think that Roy’s going to have an easy time of it, and I don’t think it’s going to be easy for him to know who to trust. That being said, he’s a gladiator in the ring, and I don’t count him out certainly, and I also don’t count out the fact that he can reach out from prison, and there’s a danger to keeping him alive and making him suffer, which is that as long as he is alive, he’s dangerous. But I do enjoy seeing him afraid for at least a moment.
Well, they guy did get nipple rings.
What part of what she did was illegal? Forgiving debt for prisoners?
Nor did I say she was “good”. Far from it. But nowhere near the sort of evil Tillman was, In the D&D world, she’d be LN. He’d be CE.
Splitting hairs now?
She literally paid prisoners off to beat and rape another prisoner. That’s absolutely not legal.
Whether or not that can be proven in court is a separate question and exactly where she lives.
Throughout the series, it’s pretty clear she’s not ‘law-abiding’ in the strict sense. Only in the sense that she’s careful enough not to ever be charged with any crime.
As the interview above with Noah Hawley notes, he wrote it specifically that she paid prisoners to do bad things to another person and literally notes that as evil as capitalism is, he bet on it to win in the end. In the words of the show’s creator, literally evil, not neutral.