Did you read my post at all? Any thoughts on the problem of a dad having a legitimate interest in his daughter’s (or son’s!) sex life (or hopeful complete lack thereof) when they’re 5? 10? 13? 17? Obviously the answer needs to be different at each of those ages, but A) maybe the rate at which the answer needs to change is different for different children, and B) children are really the only people one will ever meet who go from needing full protection of adults to being adults, and it’s not always as easy or pat as it seems like from the outside?
As it should be. I know that physical abuse among teens is a real problem these days and the boy should face charges.
I don’t know why you think this is the case, but how do you know the girl doesn’t just want sex?
You may not like it, but even if you can spot that guy before she does, it doesn’t teach her how to spot that guy long after she’s left your house and is on her own. Sooner or later just about everyone gets their heart broken. At best, you delay the inevitable.
Of course there is also the ‘Daddy doesn’t like him’ factor, which raises the attractiveness of any male by at least 2 points on the 10 point scale.
And I don’t. I think it’d take an irresponsible parent to not set a curfew for an under-eighteen minor living at home and going to high school, or to not set the message that education (including homework) is important. But it would kind of strike me as a little strange if every friend of a sixteen or seventeen year old had to be met and parent approved. I think by then they’re picking their own friends and getting in the last bit of practice before they enter a life that their parents will mostly watch from the sidelines.
Presumably, however, that teenage daughter knows what her curfew is and knows the penalty for being late, so there is n need to crack a joke to the teenage boy about what will happen to him if they are late. Presumably the daughter also knows that she can call either of her parents at any point if things turn sour and she needs to come home, and they will come and get her without fail.
No threats needed.
How, exactly, is this a betrayal? Other than the fact that this girl apparently broke her curfew, what exactly did she do that was wrong?
She had sex with a guy? She had sex with a guy who’s only interested in sex? She may have been only interested in sex?
She’s seventeen, not seven. What right does her father have to feel betrayed because she had sex with a guy? I note that you don’t place any emphasis on the breaking of curfew, so I am surmising that is not the issue that has riled her dad.
I’m in my thirties, and I think it’s pretty creepy that this father considers her daughter having sex with a guy to be a ‘betrayal’.
Because the rules are suddenly different when it’s a girl who engineered the situation?
And what if she wants to screw some guy when she’s seventeen just for the fun of it?
Father of an adult female here. I never thought to try to intimidate any of her dates. I didn’t need to. My wife and I raised her to be self reliant, and street smart. Frankly by the time she was dating, I kind of felt sorry for most of the boys, cause they didn’t stand a chance. She intimidated them all by herself. Smart, mature, funny and sarcastic as hell. Poor bastards, they didn’t stand a chance. She dated a couple of guys in high school. She wound up kicking both of them to the curb for various reasons. Like I said, I feel sorry for those guys.
At some point she started having sex. did I have a problem with this? Hell no, I didn’t. Sex is great, sex is wonderful, and it is a lot of fun. I hope that both of my children have long and fun sex lives.
The other interesting point is I never had rebellious kids. Funny, they always liked hanging around our house with all of their friends. Maybe it is because I didn’t act like I owned them, and I treated them like thinking and functioning individuals.
For once I agree with catsix – a father feeling “betrayed” at a seventeen year old having sex is creepy as hell. He sounds like a jealous lover, not a parent.
Right. I think it would entirely be appropriate, normal, and expected for the father to be angry at the daughter for the staying out all night in violation of the curfew and that there would be some punishment for that.
Which I would venture a guess that we also agree on that.
Together and mature enough to believe that her relationship with her dad is good enough that she can tell him where she’s going and what she’s doing, and if things had gone sour on her that night, she probably would have felt no compunctions about calling her dad and asking him to help her out, instead of just dealing with the problem on her own (possibly badly) and needing to hide it from him.
If it was a mistake, it was hers to make, but at least your friend has raised a daughter who’s up front and honest with him about what she’s doing.
Never miss an opportunity to throw in the black belt bit, do we? Apparently your brand of black belt is pretty far from the one I studied. Number 1 Rule was, " Step back. Try to flee without injury to yourself or others." That’s Tae Kwon Do for you.
Your posturing creates a potential scenario in which this young man visits the house.The outcome is fairly sickening. This young man comes over. Watches DVD movie with daughter and friends. Daughter walks him to door and hugs him goodnight. Daughter indicates of her own free will with no coercion or force that she wishes to kiss young man goodnight. Daughter kisses young man goodnight.
Young man awakens 19 hours later with a ruptured spleen, shattered orbit, torn cornea, moderate concussion, 3 broken ribs and a fractured jaw. Shodan spends the night in the police station trying to find someone who isn’t a dolt, who has some common sense, who has a little girl of their own, who understands what it is to be a good daddy.
Yeah. She lives in your house. At some point, she’ll be dying to get the fuck out. Really badly. And not live under your roof again.
Then, for the rest of your life, you’ll be wondering why.
Sorry, I was addressing someone else and I didn’t see your post.
As a blanket statement, no, in general, I don’t think a dad has any legitimate interest in his daughter’s sex life. (Note I distinguish sex from dating - sex has to do with vaginas, dating has to do with relationships, and I think it’s quite reasonable for dads to take an interest in their daughters’ relationships, whether dating or otherwise.) Obviously there are exceptions, such as in cases of abuse/exploitation/harassment etc. But in my own experience, I have never heard of a father doing more good than harm by making his daughter’s vagina any of his business (and indeed, a lot of harm can come of it, usually to the detriment of the father-daughter relationship).
If I heard any counter-examples, my position might be different. But in 32 years I have never seen any.
I am going to make this point again, because it keeps getting ignored. Everything you have said in this post is a good thing. You should stick up for your daughter. You sound like you have the experience and judgment to know when to talk to his parents and when to talk to the police. I hope your daughter has the self confidence and trust to come to ask for help when she needs it. But…
What does the physical posturing have to do with any of it? Parents should help and support their children. I doubt if anyone, even catsix, would argue against that. What we are saying is the notion that fathers need to establish that they are physically dominate over males their daughter dates is creepy, demeaning to all parties, and ineffectual. Be it via outlandish threats with firearms or the “extra firm handshake”.
This whole train wreck started because some of the “jokes” sounded a little to close to reality to be funny to some of us. You actually challenged me to give real examples of it happening, as if it was some made up thing that could never occur. So, you don’t actually do it. Good for you. Others are proud of doing it. The point is many people are discomfited by “jokes” that are indistinguishable from a distasteful reality. Here’s an extreme example. Watch this clip. It’s funny right? But what if it wasn’t Dave Chappelle, but Michael Richards? Would it still be funny? If you don’t see why people might take offense to that, then we can only agree to disagree.
Jonathan
PS Shodon, you keep editing the real question out of your replies so, please answer: What is the point of the extra firm handshake?
You still can’t tell the difference between hyperbole and reality,can you, jack-ass?
No, I’m just disgusted. The girl was honest and level-headed enough to tell her dad the truth about where she was going, instead of making up some lie about a sleep-over with girl friends.
And for her honesty, she is rewarded with a dad who feels she’s ‘betrayed’ him by sleeping with a guy he doesn’t like. Because the dad apparently thinks that the girl’s options for sexual partners should be HIS decision.
catsix is right, that’s just creepy.
Because it’s easier than admitting that their daughters like and want sex.
Not being your daughter, I have no dog in this fight.
Some of us are just trying to say that you are gambling your relationship with your daughter on the fact that she will have the same interpretation of these jokes as you do. If it turns out that her understanding is more like mine or catsix’s than like yours, the results of your hyperbole will not be as you would like them to be.
If you’re cool with that, I’m cool with that.
I’m just curious why it’s a betrayal. Is it because he doesn’t like the guy? Because the daughter disobeyed him by leaving the house when she wasn’t supposed to? In that case, I think she was wrong to go off when she wasn’t allowed to, but not wrong to have sex. She is 17 after all, and in a year will be off probably doing just that on her own.
Also, if the fathers in question are freaking out about the fact that guys have only one thing on their mind…maybe they were just never aware of how equally horny females are? I know I was. And, well, still am.
Thinking about your offspring having sex is always awkward, though. Thinking about your parents doing it is, too. But kids can’t forbid their parents from having sex. Unless they’re demented, I suppose, and in a nursing home.
I think that while some of this “protecting” may stem from wanting to maintain their daughter’s “purity” or “innocence” or even reputation (or standing within the family), another cause has not yet been mentioned: fear of or an uncomfortableness with their daughter’s sexuality as a whole. Afterall, in our culture, men are socialized (hell, it’s probably hardwired genetically) to find young women sexually attractive. But daughters/nieces/granddaughters/friends of daughters are off limits despite being very attractive. They are taboo, so a lot of shit gets built up around those who are “untouchable”. When does she get to be an adult? When she’s 20? 30? A part of her will always be “your little girl” and that’s fine. But as she ages that part should get smaller.
That discomfort with young female sexuality (IMO) is what runs through all the “she’s gonna live in a convent and never date!” type stuff one hears from dads of young daughters, but it also spills into “I’m going to take your nuts off with a wrench if you’re so much as 5 minutes late home with her.” I am baffled by the claims that acting pyscho in front of daughter’s dates would make anyone think that they would be viewed with respect by said date or their own daughter. She is likely to be mortified by such an act and more likely to cut off her nose to spite Dad’s face (that is, have sex, if only to show Dad that she’s in control).
I’m not sure just what is supposed to happen when someone female becomes sexually active. By that I don’t mean STDs or pregnancy. Really, when you look at it, what is the big deal? If (and it’s a big IF, given teens and responsible behavior) we can assume (for the sake of argument) that safe sex will be practiced, what are we left with? A very, very small chance of pregnancy or STD–small enough so that the cost/benefit analysis comes down on the green light for having sex.
But it’s not that easy, as we all know. I have not factored in emotional maturity–can either party handle having sex? (that always seems to be left out of the equation in modern magazines and such). Some people (myself included) are not “wired” for casual sex. Some are. Fair enough. But here’s the rub: none of us can really make that decision for anyone else (which is one reason why pressure from any party is so distasteful to folks).
Dates can’t make that decision for dates; parents can’t make that choice for teens, as much as we’d like to think we can. We can say my son or daughter is too young for sex and we may well be right–but we aren’t them and we can’t control that aspect of them. Posturing and acting a fool (seriously–karate? guns? why not just go all the way and claim you work for Special Forces or the CIA or some such–you couldn’t be more of a cartoon if you tried. I direct that comment to all the dads here who think that doing such things endears you to your daughter, helps your relationship or think you’re fostering respect and fear in the boys.)
The truth of the matter is that we need to give our kids tools in which to navigate throughout life. Girls do face different pressures than boys (and vice versa), so one needs to tailor one’s teaching to be somewhat gender specific. It’s a gray area and cultural and religious values come into play, as well as maturity, your relationship with the teen and their social skills. There is no one “right” age to start dating or having sex. (I would prefer them to be at least 17, but that’s me).
But acting a bully because Joey has come to pick up Ashley for Prom is laughable. At that point, the ship(that is, any teaching of any cultural or personal values re sex) has already sailed and it doesn’t matter what you say to that boy. You could treat him with courtesy and respect and trust him to make good decisions. You could treat your daughter the same way. Or you can make a mockery out of a special occasion for them both, thereby not only embarrassing her, but also making you the Enemy and them united against you. IOW, it’s a short-sighted political move as well as a silly thing to do.
That said, I think there is nothing wrong with telling your daughter (once she has started dating) that you (dad) are here as a safe haven of sorts, if she finds herself needing one. But she should already know that, no? Knives, guns, martial arts and other empty (let us hope) threats need not come into it. Would you have appreciated having some Dad come the heavy on you when you were dating as a teen?
ETA: I have no doubt that much of the posturing in this thread was hyperbole. But here’s the thing: what was said is not far off of what many men actually do in RL. So, this stuff really isn’t all that funny. I see nothing funny about protecting a young woman from her own sexual desires anyway. It’s medieval.
What would be really swell is if you, catsix, et. al. would get over this idea that you_somehow_know my daughter better than I do. This includes her sense of humor both now and in her future teen years. Vaginas are way cool, but to the best of my knowledge they do not endow one with telepathic or prescient abilities.
Sure I can. Some of the responses were obviously hyperbole. But some sounded exactly what people actually do. Is that so hard to understand? If you have never experienced that, good for you. How about if these posts show up in a thread on whether you should assume your spouse cheats:
Is that hyperbole or not? People really feel that way and really kill each other for cheating. Even if you know for a fact that the people won’t go to the extremes threatened, it comes off as angry and hateful. And to someone who has had to deal with or even witnessed violent jealousy, it really isn’t funny.
Jonathan
…and, as we’ve already established, it’s all about your determination to be offended. Once again, where were you in all the threads where there were dead baby jokes? Where were you in all the RO threads where people made jokes about sharing a cell with Bubba?
You know what? Go ahead and wallow in being offended. Besot yourself with it. You apparently enjoy it and it does me no harm.
For my part, I see no pressing reason to give any weight whatsoever to parenting advice from childless offenderatti. Especially childless offenderatti whose sole claim to parenting knowledge is that_apparently by their own admission_they had parents who did a poor job. Seeing it done wrong doesn’t mean you know how to do it right.
So you believe I should run away from meeting my daughter’s boyfriend?
I’ll ask the same question I asked before - are you really this stupid?
Seriously - did this sound like it made sense when you read it over?
I don’t mind it so much coming from people like Strassia and cowgirl, who cannot seem to be bothered to read for comprehension. And I assume most of the rest of you are showing off how liberated and modern you are, and that you wouldn’t care if your daughter had sex on the living room floor with a German Shepherd as long as he used a condom, but -
The other ones are the ones I don’t understand. Either y’all seem grimly determined not to have any sense of humor at all, or you look at a post where a father says he makes it a point of meeting his daughter’s boyfriends and see some scenario where I attack people at random.
You people are weird.
All these posts about how fucked up relationships are. Either they haven’t got any children, or they can’t get along with their fathers, or their kids are on Prozac or something, while my daughter gets straight A’s, is active in her church, has never even gotten so much as a traffic ticket, and is universally popular and happy.
And I am supposed to take advice on how to treat her from y’all.
I think there is a quotation about specks and logs and eyes here somewhere.
Regards,
Shodan