Oh, good! So the ban is pretty much pointless then. I guess that works…
Here’s somebody else that supports the ban for no real reason:
Ah, so consumers not following the instructions printed on the bottle is the fault of manufacturers now? By that logic, Rush Limbaugh could overdose on oxycontin trying to get high, then mount a successful lawsuit against its makers.
You’re referring to my OP? If so, it’s a bit of both. Like I said, I don’t use it often - maybe once every two or three months. I’m not exactly freaking out because I won’t be able to get it anymore, but I’m not terribly happy, either. And it’s a “don’t control my life” rant in the sense that I’m sick to fucking death of the misguided, money-wasting War on Drugs.
Also, since it appears that only herbs containing ephedrine, and not ephedrine itself will be banned, this seems like a big, fat, waste of time even for people who do think it should be criminalized.
Not that I’m advocating any particular course of action, but if they’re just banning dietary supplements…
I hear the ephedra plant can make a pleasent ornamental addition the landscaping of one’s abode… There’s at least one variety native to North America, so it should flourish without needing a great deal of care…
To add to Podkayne’s excellent post, this is from the FDA’s press release (italics added):
"Under the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, the FDA bears the burden of proof to show that a dietary supplement presents a significant or unreasonable risk to prevent it from being marketed; in contrast, for drugs that have similar pharmacologic properties to ephedra, manufacturers bear the burden of proof of showing that the drug is safe and effective before it can be marketed.
Ephedra, also called Ma huang, is a naturally occurring substance derived from botanicals. Its principal active ingredient is ephedrine, which when chemically synthesized is regulated as a drug. In recent years ephedra products have been extensively promoted for use to aid weight loss, enhance sports performance, and increase energy.
FDA’s concerns about dietary supplements containing ephedra arise in part from ephedra’s mechanism of action in the body. Ephedra is an adrenaline-like stimulant that can have potentially dangerous effects on the heart. FDA’s evaluation also reflects the available studies of the health effects of ephedra. This includes many studies reviewed by the RAND Corporation, which found little evidence for effectiveness other than for short-term weight loss, as well as evidence suggesting safety risks. Other recent studies have also confirmed that ephedra use raises blood pressure and otherwise stresses the circulatory system, effects that have been conclusively linked to significant and substantial adverse health effects like heart problems and strokes."
So we have a product whose manufacturers don’t have to prove safety and efficacy (unlike manufacturers of drugs containing ephedrine), which has dubious value except for short-term weight loss, and serious cardiovascular side effects (i.e. stroke). The FDA is doing what it can to limit abuse and prevent deaths, within the restrictions of current law*, which the FDA notes kept it from rapidly accumulating evidence of ephedra-related deaths (which did not have to be reported by the supplement manufacturers).
And yes, you could probably grow your own, and worry (or not) about what levels of the drug you might be taking, in an even more unstandardized product.
*law courtesy of people like Orrin Hatch and Tom Harkin, major defenders of the supplement industry and who have fought more effective regulation.
Got a nice pop-up ad while previewing, for 40% off on weight loss pills online. :rolleyes:
the baseball player in question’s death is more a result of darwinism than ephedra. he had a 22 year old brother die of a heart attack, he hadn’t ate solid foods in two days, he was all bundled up in the muggy FL weather in heavy sweats trying to “sweat off weight,” and he was out of shape/overweight and running hard.
No trace of ephedra was found in Corey Stringer’s blood or the Northwestern LB’s blood. The media basically created a witch hunt with ephedra.
Muscle and Fitness did an indepth story on the baseball player’s death a while back…it is not on the web that I can find.
If this stuff were really that bad, people would be keeling over in gyms all over the country on a daily basis.
To add to the mention above of 155 deaths associated with ephedra use in the last few years, a total of approximately 16,000 adverse reactions has been reported - including strokes and heart attacks.
Kind of a high price to pay for such minimal benefits.
Yeah, but how many people take ephedra? I’d be curious to see the amount of adverse reactions relative to the amount of users compared with that of asprin or the like.
I’d also be curious as to how many of those adverse reactions occured in people that were not following the instructions clearly labelled on the package.
It’s been widely established that people abuse the stuff. People also abuse alcohol. Are we going to yank that off the shelves? It just angers me that the gov. feels the need to “babysit” it’s citizens to this extent.
Yes, I am sort of the Tug McGraw of Organized Medicine.
Wait…“So you believe” must reflect the conclusion that I am a credulous government dupe. Have you considered the possibility that I am actively part of the conspiracy to keep America fat and sluggish? :rolleyes:
I am slightly more likely to believe the conclusions of scientists in the public and private spheres based on years of evaluation, than a report in Muscle and Fitness. But that’s just me.
If people want to grow and consume herbs at their own risk I have few objections. Supplement companies that are part of a multi-billion dollar industry should not be able to market dangerous, adulterated and/or worthless products with the aid of protective legal loopholes.
You know, a local couple lost their teenage son not too long ago and blamed it on ephedra. IIRC the lad had taken like 12 tables before football practice.
Anyhoo these people lobbied for, and got, a complete ban on ephedra in Illinois. There they were with Governor Rod Blagojevich while he signed the act.
No problem, sez I, I can just go to Missouri and buy all I want (along with my fireworks!). Not that I’ve ever taken a microgram of ephedra in my life; no no, at least I have the freedom to buy it (albeit in another state) if the mood ever strikes me.
Then the FDA bans it. Who, you ask, is on the front page of the State Journal-Register the day after the story breaks? Why, it’s that same couple whose son died, embracing one another and grinning ear to ear at the news of the ban.
Not that this particular couple had anything to do directly with the FDA’s decision, but it still bothers me on some level that this couple’s kid abuses ephedra and dies, and they can’t contain their glee when the government bans it. As if their son had nothing to do with his own death and it was all the greedy ephedra manufacturer’s fault, and praise God almighty for the nanny FDA, who will now protect us all from Satan’s herb.
The average person does not have detailed enough information about their own body to know how risky this drug is to them.
There are lots and lots of people — probably even the majority of people — who can take the stuff, benefit from it, and it won’t cause problems. There is a minority of people who can take the stuff, and end up with fatal consequences.
If I hadn’t decided years ago that I wasn’t going to let the organized diet industry make a penny of profit from me, I could have very well been one of the statistics. I’m a healthy person who has never had any adverse drug reaction, and would not have any reason to expect that Ephedra would bother me. However, although I’m a regular exerciser and in excellent cardiovascular condition, I discovered within the past two years that I have an electrical problem with my heart. When my catecholamine levels spike up or down, my heart can be triggered into ventricular tachycardia. Had I taken Ephedra, this problem could very well have not been discovered until after my death.
Drugs that could kill a small but significant number of people do not belong on an unregulated market. If it is that worthwhile a substance, it should become a prescription medication that a doctor who has knowledge of your cardiovascular condition can prescribe and monitor the effects.
Think about it. One of the main reasons many drugs are by prescription only is not becuase they are dangerous substances in and of themselves, but that there should be some medical oversight before taking them. I’m happy to see Ephedra being taken off the open market.
They haven’t banned epinephrine, available in fine products like “Bronkaid” (albiet bundled with guaifenesin), have they? I’ve only seen references to the herbal version.
Ephedrine, IIRC, is one short step (a reduction reaction) away from amphetamine. So there may be other reasons to ban it – unregulated ephedra may have been a significant source of starting material for meth labs.
Mickey Kaus makes an interesting point about how they announced the ban on the same day they announced Ashcroft was recusing himself from the Valerie Plame leak investigation. Perhaps the ban is more politically motivated than first-glance impression would lead us to believe.
Jackmaniii and Podkayne are right. You are misplacing the focus of your ire. It should be on the supplement industry. Here, in Ma Huang, is one of their rare products that have actually been shown to be pharmaceutically active. They have is essence sacrificed their right to sell this so they can continue to sell you echinacea, St. John’s Wort, ginseng, garlic tablets, etc. which have little to no scientifically proven effect. They would rather give up this one supplement rather than subject all of their others to government inspection, regulation, and standardization.
It is not the job of the government to protect people from their own ignorance as a parent would a child.
I am growing quite tired of the attitude that it is.
If people refuse to educate themselves as to the risk and make an informed decision, that is their problem. The right to make an informed decision should not be taken away from me by a nanny state.
By all means, let’s bring back DES and thalidomide, Lithium in 7-Up, Opiate laced cough syrup, MTBE or leaded gasoline, and PCB’s in power transformers!
I want the government to stop trying to play nanny about something that I could put in my body that will either help me, harm me, or do nothing, and you’re talking about leaded gasoline?
Did you miss the the part about DES and thalidomide, Lithium in 7-Up and Opiate laced cough syrup? Those things weren’t used for axle grease you know. People ate them.
And I think as long as the only person affected is the person who puts it into their body, the government shouldn’t be banning the substance.
Of course, you’re talking about cases where there was no opportunity to make an informed decision because information on negative effects wasn’t exactly available to the general public if they chose to look for it.
Such information was available for Ephedra. If someone made a stupid and uninformed decision, that was hardly the fault of anyone but that person.
DES and thalidomide were never available OTC or in “supplements” or easily grown natural sources - they were (and still are) inventions of the pharmaceutical industry that were prescribed by doctors and dispensed by pharmacists to patients who had put their trust in modern medicine and the government oversight of same.
Opiate “laced” cough syrup is still prescribe from time to time by doctors for real needs. In this case, probably a good idea to no longer sell it OTC because of the abuse potential of refined opium poppy extracts.
Never heard of a lithium/7-Up connection before.
As for leaded gasoline - it still exists. In fact, I use 10-20 gallons in an average week.
All that aside - epheda IS a naturally occuring herbal substance. I think the folks who would go to the trouble of growing and processing it themselves are more likely than the average pill-popper to educate themselves about the plant (which is not to say there aren’t idiot herb gardeners). But when available in pill form it is all too easy to gulp down far more than you should.
IS ephedra effective for weight loss and some forms of congestion? Yes! Does it raise blood pressure? Yes! Is this dangerous? For some yes, for some no.
My personal preference would be for a strongly worded label with print in a minimum font size (say, 12 point) saying “MISUSE OF THIS CAN CAUSE DEATH. A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY’RE HEALTHY MAY EXPERIENCE HEART ATTACK, STROKE, OR DEATH EVEN AT NORMAL DOSES. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK” and leave it go at that. But, of course, the world (or at least the United States) does not work that way.