Federal subsidies to industries: explain why they make sense

I’ve always been mildly curious about federal subsidies to industry (agriculture, in particular).

I don’t see what the function of such subsidies is, other than to turn farming into a government job.

It seems like Republicans should be against subsidies as they are basically business hand-outs from the federal government.

It seems like Democrats should be against subsidies as they (I imagine . . . could be wrong on this) go mostly to red states and “big agri-business” and make it harder for Joe-local farmer to compete.

And yet, I never ever hear farm subsidies (or those for any other industry) brought up as a possible waste of federal spending.

Is it just that no one wants to be the bad guy when it comes to American Jobs and American Industry, or is there something vital about such handouts that I haven’t grasped yet?

A lot of it is just pork, naturally. And politicians don’t want to cut pork because it gets them re-elected.

And as far as farming go we have this cultural preoccupation with thinking of “farming” as “Bill and Jane on their family farm”, and not what it really is these days; “BigHugeAgriCorp and their factory farms”. Cutting subsidies gets portrayed as threatening the bankruptcy of the family farms, instead of something that cuts a few percent into the profit of a corporation.

However, there’s also the idea that a particular industry might be unprofitable but desirable, so the government props it up.

Agriculture subsidies make zero sense to me. They strongly incentivize industrial monocultural farming of corn and soy, which is a huge factor in the obesity epidemic, so we’re paying for it at least twice, when you count healthcare costs.

Some subsidies can make sense. One goal is to have American farms overproduce in a “normal” year. If one region of the country then experiences a debilitating drought the rest of the country can still feed the citizens without major shortages.

Fair enough, but I think what we’re doing is so far beyond that that the comparison can’t even be made.

Yeah, they do make sense since it’s impossible to import food from outside the country.

The benefits (apart from helping politicians get elected) are at least three:
(1) agriculture is more profitable;
(2) food is cheaper to the consumer;
(3) small country towns can remain more viable.

Apart from the cost to the taxpayer (who will generally be the same person who gets cheaper food), there’s also a cost to farmers in countries outside the U.S., who will find it harder to sell agricultural products in the U.S. – and those farmers are often in Third World countries.

Right, and that’s the real issue, imagine if we were entirely dependent on foreign corn! Think what it would be like if the Oil Embargo happened to food. The lineups for the gas station would be lineups for the soup kitchens. Or something like that.

If the excess was somehow brought to a central point, put into a ginormous pile and ceremonally burned each year then the public would see how much waste their taxes are buying. Would also be an enviromental disaster exceeding by some magnitude the Gulf oil spill.

Instead it gets dumped on world markets via the Export Enhancement Program (to the detriment of other primary producers of the world who, if they had the hard currency would likely buy the goods/services that the US has a competitive advantage in producing.

The US pays for this notion of agrarian automomy and the legacy of little house on the prairie three, four times for every actual dollar spent.

Governments give out subsidies if they want to foster or help along an infant industry. Other countries tolerate it because either the country doing the subsidization is powerful, or because the fledgling industry is so small and weak that it’s not worth it to get into a trade war.

That said, I don’t think farming in America needs subsidies. Other third world countries suffer because of subsidized prices that America (and other countries) can float. Will farmers get hurt without the subsidization? Yes. But, arguably those farmers shouldn’t be around because they are uncompetitive.

Industry subsidies exist because industries have a lot of political clout, and because politicians who bring the bacon home to their districts in the form of subsidies tend to be re-elected.

Remember the old saying: MY subsidy is critical to the health of the nation. YOUR subsidy is pork.

The U.S. is particularly susceptible to pork-barrel politics because of the nature of the government. Each Senator and Congressman goes to Washington to represent their own states. So when the Federal government collects taxes and doles out favors, the inevitable result is a frantic battle between politicians to carve up the pie and cart it home. In this, they are aided and abetted by lobbyists and other special interests.

So the question to be asked is not, “Are subsidies good for America?” From the standpoint of an individual politician, the question to be asked is, “Given that a trillion dollars is going to be shoveled out to the various states, is my state better off if I stand on principle and refuse subsidies while our competing, neighboring states get them, or would it be better for my state if I jam my nose in to the trough and start squealing with the rest of them?”

The incentives of individual politicians are not aligned with the welfare of the country as a whole. And so, a lot of stupid crap happens.

Subsidies are bad for the country as a whole. The arguments for it (like the ‘excess food supply’ argument above) are mostly bunk or over-stated. Of course, there are a lot of high-priced consultants to industry who spend a lot of time thinking up new rationales for their pork, but that doesn’t make their arguments right, even when repeated by politicians on your side of the fence.

New Zealand subsidized agriculture heavily. It subsidized fertilizer - so people over-fertilized and polluted the rivers. It subsidized sheep by offering money per pound. So farmers grew fat sheep that no one wanted. It subsidized grazing land, so farmers used land for grazing which was ill-suited to the task. The result was high cost, an industry dependent on the whims of politicians, and, because the profit of farmers was increasingly divorced from the demands of the marketplace, an agriculture industry that was becoming increasingly non-competitive on world markets.

When New Zealand eliminated all the subsidies, farmers screamed. They said that New Zealand farming would be destroyed and a way of life lost. They claimed there would be high unemployment, and the cost of food would skyrocket. They made all the standard claims for maintaining subsidies that you hear here. And yet, the subsidies were removed, primarily because the government ran out of money.

The result? The farmers had to compete. They made their farms more efficient. The focused on the quality of their veal instead of weight. They utilized their land better. In a reasonably short period of time, farm profits went up, and the whole sector became healthier and more competitive. Today, when you ask many farmers in New Zealand about subsidies, they’ll tell you that they’re a bad idea that made them lazy and sloppy, and removing them was ultimately good for farmers and for New Zealand.

And of course the risk of that it so much greater than the risk of wasteful pork going to politically connected industries since agricultural land in the world is concentrated in only a few countries.

Ag subsidies started to reduce the amount of crops grown to support their prices, while still making sure farmers had enough to live. During the Depression they wanted to keep farmers on the farm, and not have them lose their farms and add to the unemployment problem. I think it made sense then. Today, with massive agribusiness, it makes a lot less sense. But rural states are overrepresented in Congress, so it will be hard to stop.

Yup, but as long as you’re scared enough to vote for me, I’ll continue to be in power. Fear is a powerful motivator. You don’t want your children to go hungry do you? You don’t want evil socialist-terrorists to be in charge of your food supply do you? Can you really trust China and Mexico to produce food that is safe? Remember the dog food?! The lead coated toys?!

Farming is a tricky beast: you plant a bunch of stuff and hope for a good year. But if you have a good year and produce a lot of stuff, so did everyone else. So market forces drive down the price. The only way to make more money is to plant more, but so will everyone else, again market forces drive the price down.

Where there is a bad year, and the prices happen to go up, you don’t have anything to sell. So you go broke and can’t produce anything the next year.

It’s hard not to have government intervention in a scenario like that. Eventually there will be some form of assistance offered to farmers following a bad year(s).

Then when a good year happens, and prices are likely to plunge, it’s hard NOT to have the government step in and buy up surplus to help stabilize prices.

Those two reactions actually make perfect sense at the time, but are impossible to undo.

I always hate to drag facts into discussions about agriculture, but pretty much everything everyone thinks about Big Farming is wrong.

91 percent of farms are smaller than 1,000 acres. And that percentage has grown in the last 10 years.

83 percent of farms have less than $100,000 in sales. That figure is about the same as it was ten years ago, despite rising prices.

69 percent of farms are owned by their operator, and 27 percent are part-owned by the operator. That figure has grown in the last 10 years.

90 percent of farms are owned by individuals, sole proprietorships or family corporations. Again, the same as it was 10 years ago.

In terms of government funding per capita, urban areas receive more than rural areas.

Now, if you want to talk about Big Food processors that’s a different story.

And if you think American farmers are spoiled by subsidies, just talk to European farmers, especially the generation that remembers the food shortages after World War 2.

No farm of any size should be getting subsidies.

Alexander Hamilton thought government subsidies (or “bounties”) to nascent American industry were an excellent idea – and for nearly a hundred years after, the Whigs and, then, the Republicans held to the idea of protective tariffs as a sort of indirect subsidy. And, in hindsight, it’s hard to say they were wrong. See also, Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism, by Korean economist Ha-Joon Chang.

But, all that works best when a country’s industry is in its infancy. Maybe sustaining or revitalizing a fully industrialized economy requires a different prescription.

Those numbers out of context mean absolutely nothing. Diddly squat. There could be 10,000 little mom-and-pop farmer’s market farms at, say, 5 acres each, and 50 industrial farms at 2,000,000 acres each, and your facts would still be true, but so would everything everybody said above you that prompted you to post them.

You’ve gotta love the selective quotations
From the same cite:
54.4% of US farms are smaller than 100 acres
59.8% of US farms have sales less than $10k

That would seriously stretch any definition of a viable, working farm. They are hobby farms, country lifestyle, rural retreats and “our five acre in the country weekender” plots.
And these don’t get production subsidies because they are producing nothing.

There has a been a lot of mention about helping fledgling industries, but I think it’s the exact opposite. So many of the non-agriculture subsidies end up going to protect long established industries, you might say those that are “too big to fail.”

Think about protection of the steel or auto industry. Anything that employs large numbers of people in a small geographic area. Once threatened you are guaranteed to have politicians clamoring to give money. It sucks but makes perfect sense.

We can complain all we want about politicians being on the take, or pork barrel spending, but at the end of the day they get elected because voters love it. He saved our jobs!