I used to work in the air traffic control field. Three degrees is the standard approach. The radar (for ground assist landing) is programmed with a 3-degree glidepath. The lights (I don’t remember what they’re called) that tell the incoming pilot from the ground if he’s on glidepath, above, or below (red and white, white, red) were set for three degrees. Any time we had to verify the radar with a theodolyte, we always shot for three degrees.
What’s really funny is this was the Army. And helicopters capable of coming in at 90 degrees. But they only ever came in at 3-degrees, even for training.
You get the idea. Approach speeds on large jets are anywhere from 120 knots to 160 knots. So the rate of descent can vary from 600 to 800 feet per minute, but the ANGLE of descent is the same. You would notice the jet moving faster across the ground, but the angle of descent is the same.
Having said all that, both cargo and passenger carriers have to be “stabilized” on approach by 500 feet at the latest. That means fully configured, on approach speed and engines spooled up (ie NOT at idle). If there is bad weather (ie IFR) this is moved up to 1000 feet.
So even FedEx must have everything stabilized and on a nice 3 degree glidepath by 500 feet. Before that, though they are much freer to do what it takes to put the jet where they want it. As the saying goes, “Boxes don’t bitch”. Several times I’ve seen a cargo carrier accept a visual approach and start the turn to final (or something) MUCH earlier than I could ever get away with. Yes, my airplane could do it but I’d have a load of scared, puking, angry passengers at the end.
What does this look like? If you put all of the drag devices out (gear, flaps and speedbrakes if you’ve got 'em) and bring the power to idle you can get some truly impressive descent rates - something on the order of 6,000 - 8,000 feet per minute. That is ten times the rate you see on final approach. It’s perfectly safe and a great way to get rid of excessive altitude quickly, but it is a long way from what passengers consider “normal”. So FedEx, UPS, DHL and everyone who flies boxes around can use the limits of the airplane as their “boundary”, while passenger carriers use the much more restrictive passenger “boundary”.
I think you guys misundertood what I meant by “strage angles.” First of all here’s a picture of the airport with it’s runways highlighted Mitchell International. First of all the little blue dot is where I work. The red line is the main runway that 60%-70% or the planes use for landing and taking off, the yellow line is used the second most often. When the large FedEx planes land and take off, they use the yellow runway. In fact at the far left end of the yellow line, there are two perpendicular lines that connect the runway to another area (about an ‘inch’ above it) that’s FedEx property. Anyways, when the FedEx’s single engine prop planes come in, they use the green runway. That’s what I mean by strange angle. They come in over the corner of the airport, and just in front of where I work, which is the blue dot like I mentioned earlier. Does that clear things up a bit?
It does, Joey. But the green and yellow runways are parallel, so the planes that use them come in at the same angle - just a different angle than those using the red or magenta (?) runways. Right?
Hmm, yea that’s true Dan, BUT the it’s a combonation of the green one being so much closer and the prop planes making a distinctive prop noise that makes me realize there’s a fedex plane landing. Also on the yellow runway then tends to be more for take off, and landing seems to be more from the other (left) side. Either way the red runway is used the most, so I don’t pay all that much attention to the others. (All though it’s kinda neat, if you’re in the right place at the right time, the yellow runway goes over a very main road. It’ll scare the crap out of you the first time, your going under a tunnel just as a large plane is landing on it.)
I bet it’s really kind of exciting to see any nonpassenger aircraft coming in, just for the sheer uniqueness of it. (I’m one of those who stops what he’s doing to stare at the sky — Oooh! A helicopter!)
There’s actually TWO military bases on the field so we see alot of non-passenger air craft/helicopters/fighterjets, flying in formation even (including the blue angles from time to time). I really enjoy working across the street from an airport. So much more dynamic then staring at the front of another building all day. (Now living directly under a flight path I DON’T like.)
Based on my experience as someone who does a lot of shipping for my organization, as well as some personal package mailings, I use FedEx when it is absolutely essential that something gets there by a given day. IMO, their online tracking is way better than USPS—I like to see how close the package is to its destination.
I have had some heinous experiences with UPS. I usually only use them for heavy packages that would cost a bundle if I sent them FedEx or for stuff that’s replaceable. During over three years with this organization, UPS has managed to lose, destroy, and mutilate enough stuff that I’m a little leery of using them. My favorite UPS mixup was the time we sent a box containing folders for a training session (I work for a literacy organization); when the box was opened at its destination, it contained our folders stuffed with informational brochures for feline laser eye surgery.
For personal packages, I’m fond of using USPS priority mail in conjunction with delivery confirmation. I know it’ll get there and I can figure out when it does.
My most heinous UPS experience was when they shipped my computer parts to a neighbor, insisted they had delivered them to the right address, and were totally useless in helping me find where the packages actually were. The house where they delivered them is two houses down from mine and has a clearly marked number that differs by 3 digits; I also suspect it was either a crack house or a chop shop at the time.
I’ve used UPS both personally, and while working for several companies. IMHO they’ve earned a reputation for frequently damaging packages - I’ve had 2 model aircraft shipped to me by UPS, and both have been damaged. Also, there is apparently a 3 or 4 day lag in the tracking info, while Fedex lets you know exactly where the package is right now.
Well, the Piper Arrow down at the local field has been abusing my ego lately (you want a complex rating? bwa- ha-ha- ha-ha!), particularly with it’s mis-named “best glide” (more like “best controlled fall” - hershey bar wing model, ya know?)…
The other thing is that while I am competant and knowledgable in the realm of single-engine prop planes I am not at all educated about the big jets. Sure, a few things apply to both worlds, but I hesistate a little to pontificate on the big iron because I know I’m not an authority on them. So, by all means, please do elaborate upon my simplified answers.
Looks to me like they’re keeping the prop and the jet traffic somewhat separate - which makes sense, since they tend to travel at significantly different speeds. Props tend to be slower and don’t require as long a runway or as much manuvering room (usually - there are exceptions). By separating the two types of traffic you can use both most efficiently.
It’s not that unusual for other big airports to have a smaller runway tucked into a corner of the airport used by smaller (and usually prop) airplanes for simillar reasons. Although I have shared a runway with a 737 while in a Cessna 150 (a two-seat, very small airplane) a couple times, it’s not always the most calming experience. I basically qualify as “runway debris” from the big jet’s perspective. (My perspective is somewhat like an ant vs. human foot) Another time I was in front of a Learjet (much smaller than a Big Boeing) who pulled up a little too close, started his engine runup, and MY airplane started going backwards, which resulted in a rather frantic radio call on my part and a reprimand being handed to the jetjocky. Really, folks are much happier if you separate the big planes and the little planes.
