Fello Computer Programmers-Easiest way for me to become one at 14?

Factual Questions
41

You CAN self-teach yourself to be a very proficient and successful programmer. I have a MS in Mech Eng, with only 3 IT-related courses out of more than 170 credit hours. And yet…because of my practice and job, I’m also a 2-million line+ coder, in FORTRAN, C, C++, Java, Allen Bradley SLC, Parallax 8-bit, and (shudder) Intel assembly.

Am I good at it? Damn staight. Did I lean any of it in College? Nope. Would I recommend people do what I did to learn programming?

Nope.

I think the primary source of disagreement in this thread is really the terms and absolutes. Yes, there are many people out there who can learn very well on the job, or on their own. To do this effectively, you must have a certain discipline and ability to learn on the fly, that many do not have. But yes, it can be done.

College is, in a sense, a source for serving as a “weed-out” process, and also a source for learning problem-solving skills, workign as a team, and having access to detailed help and instruction through the learning process. If the IT program is set up well, and has decent instructors, you can learn many things, in an environment with mentors/professors that will help you to actually understand what you are doing.

One possible downside of College are the “squishier” classes - the whole host of liberal arts classes which may not be of interest to a technically-minded person. But one upside is the fact that you can take higher math and physics courses, and these are not often easy to learn on your own. Nor, are they often things that you learn on the job.

The unfortunate thing is that learning on the job sometimes only teaches you how to do tasks for that particular job, and limits or narrows your focus. With College, the goal at least is to give you a broad base from which to start.

And, of course, rightfully or not a College degree is more and more the “minimum standard” for hiring programmers.

In answer to an earlier question:

It’s irrelevant what I want, because for the programmer position at my corporation, a 4-year College Degree is mandatory. I could hire the person with the 4-years of experience - and they would start as a “tech”, and make about $10k less a year. And they could never become a manager of a project either, regardless of how worthy they are. Is that fair? Nope. But it is the way these things are in many, if not all, of my peer companies.

42

He wasn’t talking about an entry level non-grad versus an entry level grad. The non-grad in his example has four years of experience. That’s not entry level in this field. Given the choice between the two, I’d take the non-grad, if his experience was broad, and verifiable. I’d still tell someone to go to college, as I don’t think losing four years of experience matters in the long run.

Not everyone can learn this way, but there are many who excel. Mr2001 might very well be one of them. I agree that it’s a mistake, but it’s certainly not fatal in the computer industry, if you happen to have the right mentality to learn it on your own.

There’s a world of difference between “very unlikely” and “not at all”, and many of us enjoy learning purely for the sake of learning, with or without college.

I have no idea, but I have a similar background and am 42.

Here we agree completely. There is little difference between eight years of experience and twelve years of experience in this field. On the other hand, there is a huge difference between four years of experience and zero experience.

And your parents would be right. That’s not the same thing as saying non-grads can’t solve problems or create creative algorithms, which is just unfounded elitism.

I couldn’t have said this better myself.

43

Whoa. I think you misunderstood me. I’m not talking about elitism. I’m talking about the practical effects of having a college degree. The fact is, a college degree tends to give you a broader perspective, and gives a potential employer a baseline from which to judge you. A non-grad may be just as good a programmer, but he’s going to have a hell of time convincing an interviewer of that, until he’s got experience.

And I agree that four years of SOLID development experience is worth a lot. But is someone who goes to work as a programmer with no education likely to achieve that in four years? Not bloody likely. An 18-year-old with a high school diploma who goes to work looking for a job in the computer field will either A) be unsuccessful and wind up working at Radio Shack before deciding to go back to school, or B) get some crappy entry-level job as a keypunch operator, or C) get work in the quasi-professional fields, doing web programming on the side, or being a computer ‘go-to’ guy in some small company. The latter may be a decent way to get into the job market, but after four years running the POS system at the local Quickie-mart no one is going to confuse you for Linus Torvalds, y’know?

The only ‘alternate’ method I’d recommend for getting into the programming field would be to take a 1 or 2 year diploma in some specialized programming at a junior college. This will typically qualify you for a job as an entry-level QA (Quality Assurance) employee, and from there you can work your way into software development in a year or two or three, if you have talent. And this may be just be my preferences speaking, but I’d much rather spend an extra couple of years in school than having to test someone else’s code eight hours a day.

Anthracite: Ah, but you have the degree. Frankly, I don’t think a degree in computing science is necessary. I’d say half of the programmers in my office do NOT have degrees in computing science. Many of them have degrees in engineering. Mind you, our shop builds software for programming PLCs (you might even use it working with your Allen-Bradley ladder code - we make ladder logic programming software for AB, among other things). But the fields are close. Our software development process uses the same tools the engineers use for statistical analysis, project planning, quality control (FMEAs, etc).

In fact, I often recommend that people NOT get degrees in computing science, unless they want to be academic computing scientists. Instead, I recommend that they decide what field they want to work in, and study that with supplemental computing science. If you want to program guidance systems for rockets, take electrical engineering with a minor in Astronomy or physics. If you want to be a game designer, you might even shoot for a double degree in fine arts where you learn the graphics side of things, and comp sci where you learn how to represent it in the computer. If I needed a programmer in my physics lab, I’d much rather teach a physicist how to program a computer than teach a computer programmer the physics they need to write the programs I want.

44

Let’s not forget that a degree in computer science will have the person pursuing that degree actually learning aspects of programming as opposed to plugging in names and scenarios in some generic game-generator.

45

Programming a computer is instructing it how to do something. All the languages, platforms, and methodologies are just tools for doing that basic thing.

Whether or not you’re good at that basic thing depends upon a wider variety of skills and knowledges than you will normally acquire in a workplace or by self-study. There are exceptions, but in general, you need that wider experience to have a fruitful, satisfying career. College is the recommended way, and for good reason, as long as you make use of the opportunity.

Learn math–as much as you can stand. If you know how to program, get involved in some open source projects that will give you programming experience in real-world projects (so you know how different building an application is from noodling around with some programming tools). Pick another area you’re interested in–music, art, physics, biology, games–and immerse yourself in that as well, so that you have a complementary set of skills and knowledges that will open more doors for you as a professional programmer. And don’t get caught up in fads, like the latest language or platform: the fundamentals are applicable everywhere, while the fads are self-marginalizing.

46

Why the quotes? It really is my user name.

Maybe if your attitude is “let’s see what I can figure out today”. But if you start with a goal in mind (“I’m going to make a first-person shooter with DirectX”) and then discover what you need to know to make it happen, you’ll do better.

Eventually you’ll get to the point where you need to know some higher math, and you can either give up, take a class, or get some books and teach yourself. If you’re the type to give up, self-teaching obviously isn’t the way to go.

Depends what you mean by “very”. :smiley:

There may not be much difference between 10 and 14 years of experience, but there’s a huge difference between 0 and 4.

Is everyone who tries to gain 4 years of useful experience going to succeed? No. I never said it was easy, but it is possible.

That’s why I mentioned taking individual classes instead of going for a degree. You can skip the requirements and go straight to the classes you need.

That’s unfortunate, but there are companies that don’t work that way. Perhaps not many… but I never said it was easy.

47

ALL of your opinions have been very greatly appreciated, thank you all. And I’m planning on enrolling into FullSail University. www.fullsail.com I am planning on earning my High School Diploma in the 10th grade then I’ll go into College and dedicate my time on that. I am getting a job at a computer company (they pay about 10 dollars an hour)

48

Actually, Digipen has been in Redmond, WA for the past couple of years. There’s a lot of contact info on the website, including admissions.

XPav, one of the reasons Digipen moved to the States is that it allows them to offer Bachelors degrees in animation or game programming. Which they do.

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Well…what would you say would be better off for me? Digipen or FullSail? Which one has higher benefeits?(sp?)

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Looking at the course catalogs, I’d have to say that Digipen is better by far.

You will have to work hard to become a well-rounded individual if you go to either of those schools. If all you know about is game programming and 3D animation, no one will want to talk to you–especially girls.

51

fauxpas, why don’t you call them or email them for an application or pamphlet or something. Then you can decide which you like better. And don’t assume you can get into any school you want. If you’re 13, you’re not in high school yet, so you might not be familiar with the idea. You can’t just choose your favorite school and expect to get into it. Most people don’t get into their first-choice schools.

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I know…but trust me Splanky, i’ve been in the Honor Roll up to now (including Honors Society) so next year I’ll most likely be in Honor’s Classes… I hope.

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I’ll be honest with you: I have absolutely no clue. I don’t know squat about programming or game design. And I’ve never heard of FullSail.

Sorry, what I know about Digipen isn’t from professional interest, so I’m not exactly up on what benefits you could get from either school. What I do know is that since they now offer BAs, at Digipen you have to take some English classes to fulfill accreditation requirements. Also, from what I hear, most students have no problems getting jobs in their field when they graduate.

The bad part? Competition to get in is fierce. Bone up on your maths skills, you’re gonna need 'em. An “A” average won’t do it. You’ll need better’n that.

54

From FAQ of Digipen’s Website:

55

Go to a conventional 4 year college.

There are more girls there.

This is important, believe me.

56

Umm Faux Pas… I am surprised by this. Maybe things are different in Australia. I am surprised that you are discussing early entry into what I assume is university to study programming, and you haven’t discovered Linux?

My 9yr old has been running it on his 2nd HDD since he was 7. He has a copy you can run straight from a CD as well. Someone gave it to him, maybe you can get it off Kazaa or somewhere. He also loves to play around with writing little programmes and reads programming books and operating system manuals like they were the Hardy Boys. Visual Basic is his current interest.

My advice is much the same as everyone elses, concentrate on the subjects that will get you into the university and course you want - knowing that what is being offered now will probably be obsolete by then. The basics of maths and physics won’t be though

57

cries Your son reminds me a lot… a lot…of me…:frowning: You are truly blessed. I read the books as well as if they were Sesame Street. Now at 13 (almost 14 on Sunday) I continue the trilogy or should I say a 6.13th of the approximate time people believe to live, I continue my subtle ways. Lingering here and then dinning one’s own self reflections of life. Ahh…then again I view your son’s lifestyle and I smile with pride of my own accomplishments. Bliss…sheer bliss. As I’ve said before you have been wonderfully blessed.

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Well, I know what Linux is(and that Unix is the owner of it) the thing is I was finding a FREE and legal way of owning a copy of it. You said KazAa? Is it available through: www.download.com ?

59

Well…should I put Linux on the computer I’m using or do you advise I put it on a cheap one?Linux

60

well that is good, Fauxpas, you will also know then, that Linux is a free and legal operating system that is available to anyone who wants a copy of it. It is not ‘owned by Unix’, whatever you mean by that. Unix is another, very early, OS. Linux is apparently similar to it.

Get Kazaa Lite from www.kazaalite.com -it has no spyware or adware. You can also get Linux along with an operating manual from the magazine section of most newsagencies, for the cost of the magazine.

I don’t know, re your last question, maybe you should do what someone suggested and partition your hard drive and install it, or do what my son has done and install another hard drive and put it there. Apparently it is lots of fun to play with.

myself - I am virtually computer illiterate and avoid these things