Femme Queer, Butch Queer

Do you mean in the sense of pressure from outsiders or in the sense of queer folks being unable to rid themselves of the prejudices they were taught growing up? I’ve found the latter to be a problem in any subculture.

I can’t recall was the term ‘tribadian’ coined then or later?

This sounds a bit like backlash to me.

I personally identify with the angle of queer culture that celebrates diversity. There’s room for everything, and if that is truly the case, there is no need to go around accusing anyone of not belonging, being insufficiently enlightened and just perpetrating heterosexual paradigms.

Also, in my experience, butch/femme pairings are far from being considered normative nor the majority of lesbian relationships.

A paradox. For us to be truly diverse, we must include what contradicts our identity.

In my experience too. Seems like one of those things people talk about a lot more than they actually do.

Incidentally, whenever I think of this thread, I think the title is “Femme Butch, Queer Butch,” and then it takes me a minute to remember why that would make no sense.

Because it would be harder to find rhymes for? :slight_smile:

If you think that “femme butch” makes no sense, you’ve never been to Stud for Sunday '70s Teadance.

I meant the latter. Yes, I thought of comparing it to Black Faces, White Masks, that sort of thing.

Yes, Doc Cathode, it dates from the 16th century. The earliest reference to “tribadism” cited by Faderman was by Pierre de Bourdeille, Seigneur de Brantôme (1540-1614), a work titled Lives of Fair and Gallant Ladies. The term “tribadism” specifically refers to bumping pussy rather than using a dildo. The distinction was important to phallocentric male writers like Brantôme who thought dildos should not replace men.

Another reference cited by Faderman: François Mainard (1582-1646) wrote “Tribades seu Lesbia,” in which he tells “beautiful Phyllis” that if her finger knew how to urinate along with what else it knows, it could could pass for something unmentionable. This goes to show Faderman’s point, which was that literary lesbianism in that period had to exist in a “phallocentric universe.”

One euphemism used by Brantôme was the Italian phrase “donna con donna.”