Feng Shui

What’s up with feng shui?
Is it scientifically viable?
Why do proponents always try to link it to quantum mechanics?
Why do people believe it works?
Why is the “wisdom of the ancients” better than modern wisdom?
What was original feng shui like in China? What did the Chinese use it for?

I’m writing a very important argumentative essay for English 102 on feng shui (it’s my final), and I’m having a hard time finding objective information. Everyone with a web page seems to have an agenda (come to our classes, buy our books and bamboo wind chimes), and all the information seems to conflict. I have my own opinions, but I’d like to hear what other people think about it.

Thanks,
Sarah

A good place to check for the scientific or materialist point of view is always the “Skeptic’s Dictionary.”

http://www.skepdic.com/fengshui.html

(I pretty much agree with their opinion.)

I looked at the site. If you ask me, it is too easy on this particular practice. Feng Shui is a good example that Eastern superstition is just as wrongheaded as Western superstition.

The real problem is with the huge market in Asia for various endangered animal body parts for traditional ‘medicine’. Of course, this is one of the reasons that the animals are endangered in the first place.

Bill

I can answer two questions:

No.

Quantum mechanics is weird as all get-out, but people hear scientists claming it’s true. Very few people understand any of quantum mechanics. Therefore, if you claim that your mysticism-of-the-month is linked with quantum mechanics, people will expect it to be mysterious and difficult to understand, and may think your mysticism-of-the-month must be true because scientists keep saying that quantum mechanics is true.

Hey, JonF, didn’t some quantum physicist once say “Anyone who says they understand quantum physics, doesn’t understand quantum physics?”

feng Shui out here adds greatly to the coat of a house. In my mind it is just as valid as the practice of burying a Saint’s statute in your yard to get a better sale.

I believe in it. For more info try out

http://www.qiwhiz.com

It has eaasy explanations, and it even has way to select your feng shui master!

Printed, quoted, cited (MLA-style) two weeks ago. Where would I be without Robert Todd Carroll? His ch’i article is also relevant. However, it was a little more superficial than I was hoping for. That’s what the Skeptic’s Dictionary is for, though. Quick definitions, not long, scholarly debunkings.

Mjollnir wrote:

Feynman said:
“… I think I can safely say that nobody understands Quantum Mechanics”

Niels Bohr said:
“If anyone says he can think about quantum problems without getting giddy, that only shows that he has not understood the first thing about them”

Feng shui is very very old. In China they used its general directional rules to position and orient tombs and such waaayyy back. Japan picked it up too and planned its temples and cities along those lines (bad things come from the north, so you put the high class people who are resistent to evil at the north, with the easily-led-astray lowlifes inthe south. You also stagger your gates from side to side if you have a number of concentric walls, becasue evil spirits have to move in straight lines, etc.) The modern equivilant with regards to Better Homes and Gardens- style is quite watered down, I think.

I suggest you try a library. That’s where I found a book on it. It get’s very complicated, but perhaps you could learn more of the Chinese philosphy behind it: yin and yang (the male and female forces) and the flow of energies. For example, your back door should not be directly opposite your front door - that allows good energy to flow in and out; flat roofs are better than gable; water nearby is a good thing; etc. etc. Whether I believe in it or not – not sure. I only had the patience to pick up some of the basics (some mentioned above), and where I lived before violated all of them; I didn’t have them in mind when looking for a new apartment, but after moving in, I realized the feng shui elements (the few I could remember) were good. I have been a lot happier here… who knows – if it works for you, why not?

In my experience, these two qualities are intimately related. :slight_smile:

HaHaHaHaHa! Dys, you’re such a card. Lest our o.p. misunderstand: by water, I meant bodies of water (lake, pond), or much flowing water, as a stream, river, waterfall.
I have a lovely duck pond behind my apartment, visited frequently by Canada geese and occasionally an egret. I can see it as I sit at my puter – very calming and often fascinating. I’d say that is good feng shui.

Ah, feng shui, one of the many goofy topics I have had to research for articles! It’s a bizarre combination of good design sense and utterly fluff-headed superstition. Kind of like the unholy offspring of Martha Stewart and Uri Geller.

Some of feng shui is common sense: good design composition when placing furniture, windows, plantings, etc. Then it goes wacky, saying things like your hallway should not run to an outside door, or your “chi” (life force) could run out the door and into the street and get run over by a milk truck.

Should this happen, of course, you can still go to the store and buy canned chi (“Chi Whiz”).

I recommend the very funny book “Dumb Feng Shui” by Kaz Cooke (an Aussie), with advice like, “Having a good view is genial feng shui. Build yourself a 45-room mansion overlooking a major Jamacian harbour,” and “It is bad luck to have two mirrors endlessly reflecting each other, as it might tear a black hole in space, stuff up the space/time continuum and suck your hallway into a parellel universe.”

having used Feng Shui as a stand-in (dang, can’t remember the academic term… must be getting old) for chinese asethetics for my master’s thesis, BOY, can I give you info. (Thesis topic: Geographic Code-Switching in Chinatown, Philadelphia, PA)

First, while it was used initially as a siting method for tombs, that was as AESTHETIC SITING ONLY. There was QUITE a snit in the court when the “common people” started using it as a method to improve their lives. It was designed to create appealing and beautiful and restful and appropriate landscapes. PERIOD.

Moving on a few centuries, people were using it heavily as a way to improve everything from health to future to numbers of offspring. Actually, it seems to work in some ways - that is, if you have a restful beautiful place to come home to, chances are your stress levels will lower, you’ll be more rested, you’ll make better decisions, you’ll fight less with your spouse… MANY of the principles are based on good PSYCHOLOGY. You don’t want wind blowing garbage in your front door. You don’t want your front door to stick or to swing open unexpectedly. You don’t want to have car lights coming straight at your house and in your bedroom window (hard to sleep). Etc. Etc.

Another portion is based on good land use. Don’t put your house on a flood plain, but you kinda want SOME source of clean water nearby. Don’t put a well in your courtyard (don’t want to have your kid fall in, you know?). Put a high mountain at your back (protect from polar easterlies), and put a lower mountain to your west than your east (oragraphic uplift will make your valley more well-watered than the valley to the east). Don’t live in a swamp. DUH.

Inside the home, don’t clutter, keep important spaces clear, and use color, texture, and form to keep your space balanced and appealing. Don’t put pointy furniture where you’ll bark your shins on it. Keep your pictures of family in one area, preferably a low traffic spot where you can have pleasant thoughts while being reminded of them. Put something sturdy near the door so you have a place to drop your things without having to catch them again immediately. make constricted spaces feel more open, divide up spaces that feel cavernous. Give your body and mind a place to rest as soon as you get in the door, and don’t show your dirty laundry to your house guests. Chi flow follows the same pattern your eyes and attention do inside a space - so if you have a HUGE window in your living room, your eyes turn there more often, and qi (in this case, your attention) goes out.

Overall, it is just plain good advice. Or it started that way. Add a few centuries and a LOT of chinese culture, and you start getting into magical cures. Flutes, red ribbons, lucky characters, etc. More psychology, but based on CULTURE. Add compass work (astrology), and some more esoteric forms school (shapes of places nearby having very restricted meaning), and things start to get complicated, and less effective for the non-asian. Schools start to diverge, and you get disagreements over use and application. the more it is used, the more it gets tangled with folklore and chinese philosophy.

Now, people who try to apply it to non-asians come up with a snag - if red ribbons don’t mean anything to me, do they help? Maybe, maybe not. I functionally beleive in qi, that is, it seems to be a good stand-in for whatever more subtle processes are going on, so if I use it as a proxy (AHA, that’s the word), I get good results. tehnically, I haven’t seen scientific evidence that it exists, so it may well be just in my mind. But I have no problem using the tool I have, since it has good results. When someone finds me the REAL tool, I’ll use that instead.

If you want some commonsense basis for most of the major FS rules, check out nancilee wyrda’s books. She’s very into energy stuff, but she also has the concrete underpinnings worked out pretty well, and cuts away a lot of the cultural stuff that is too hard to pick through anyway. makes it a lot more relevant, and brings out a lot of the “DUH” stuff, too (like of COURSE you don’t want your back to the door all the time, because you’ll get distracted more!).

I do practice FS (mostly on friends and family) and while I DO play with the compass stuff, I also find that it is mostly just a trigger for making me think about the spaces in new ways, and gets people to think about their lives carefully, too. A reasonable background in psych or human geography is a big help. But you’ll find that most cures are ‘duh’ common sense. Fine-tuning the cures takes someone who is sensitive to the small variations. I work with someone who does energy work - a highly non-scientific practice, but the results we’ve had working together seem pretty real. (could be fooling myself, but we also haven’t charged anyone for our work together…) perhaps what she senses as ‘energy’ is just a proxy for being highly tuned in to human reaction to place, or maybe not. I suspend my disbelief, and see if the outcome is effective. If it is, and so far I have yet to have a displeased customer, then I’ll go from there on faith. It kind of crosses over into my spiritual life at that point, where science is not relevant - so don’t ask me to explain why that part works. Prayer seems to work for some people, too, and I can’t say it isn’t REAL even if I can’t prove it. I certainly won’t suggest that it is science, though.

As for house value, beautiful houses that are nicely placed in the environment OUGHT to cost more. I’d like to know who is doing the assessment, though. (What school?)

Other resources: Lillian Too has a good rep, but I haven’t actually read her stuff. Nancilee Wyrda’s “book of Cures” is a good primer on the basics (non-asian form), her other books look good (came out after my thesis). Sarah Rossbach has a lot of good historical info, started as Black Hat school, and has been around a LONG time. Some stuff of hers was a little light, but she has a lot of new stuff out. Any book that says “aesthtics and practical” in the title is probably a good bet for the fundamental skinny, and I’d avoid anything that says it will make you happy or wealthy or well loved. Derek Walters is good for the compass and bagua content, as well as the forms school stuff - decent overall info - AND his tables aren’t messed up (something I’ve found frequently - the ‘real’ process is picky and annoying if you are doing loshu or bagua forms). Steven Skinner’s old book has been reprinted (The living earth manual of feng shui) - there’s a lot of secondary research in there, which is as close to primary source as you’re going to get, and this book is pre-‘craze’, too. I also pulled a few PhD dissertations from the university publishers, for about $35 bucks apiece, but that’s probably more than you need for this paper. You might find Pivot of the Four Quarters still floating around the university library, too. Also check out the periodicals index - there are a fair number of reasonable articles in a variety of fields, start pre-1995.

Good luck! Many people are selling something, and often it is drek. But those authors are at least reasonably reputable.

hedra, how is the Straight Dope feng shui?

<Snicker>…

Hey, I don’t DO websites. (I can’t decide if they’re beneath me, or if as non-physical space, placement issues don’t apply. Qualifies more as ‘art’ if you leave it up on your screen, maybe…)

However, I love a challenge.

The logo is an interesting problem… Sticking with five element theory for now: If you go by the old school, blue is technically a plant color (based on chinese culture there - black is water, not blue, and brown is just dark yellow), and since yellow is earth, the background is sucking the life and energy out of the text (wood takes nutrients from earth). To balance this, add fire (to couteract the wood/plant and to feed the earth as ash). UM, hence the PIT? Flaming being technically a fire activity, that would keep the logo balanced. Of course, any threads on money issues (metal) would then mess with the whole thing, and you’d have to start over! No, wait, the background color is white, so there we are, metal! Black text, OH NO (more water). Someone better pay me my $75/hr for this! (Of course, I’d have to pop in daily, assess the topics, and suggest alternate topics and maybe color schemes to keep things balanced… All for a reasonable fee, mind.) And don’t even get me started on ads - the colors alone would keep my cats in kibble for life!

Of course, if you take blue as water, (as with some modern schools) you have another problem entirely. Water and earth don’t mix (okay, you get mud), so you need to add metal (money/circular forms, etc.) or counteract with HEY, Fire again! Guess the Pit serves a greater purpose, huh?

Also, I’ll have to work up a natal number chart on everyone who posts here - some of you shouldn’t be here, it’ll make you sick or hurt your marriage or job. Others should probably spend all day here. Natal number chart (including Bagua analysis) takes about 5 hours each. Bonus on that, only $100 per person. Discounts for sock puppets. Lurkers can just live with the consequences of not signing up… Oh, and if you want personal attention, send me the layout of your entire house (and office, too, please), with the location of all doors, windows, lighting fixtures and furniture, and I’ll tell you where to put your computer. No, NOT there, silly!

:slight_smile:

Honestly, though, you can create some really nice aesthetic and functional spaces using the principles.

My couch was facing the wrong way. That’s why no one came to visit. right…

After ten years I put in a fence between me & my nieghbor, who seemed to think that my driveway & the parking privs that come with it, plus access, & yes, the dirt too, belongs to them.

So he came over screaming the F word again & again. My friend heard him outside still a half hour later screaming that F word. His wife is into FS. So I quickly went on the net & checked and I was surpised, but I found that the fence is right on my prosperity line. But they could care less. Anyway, its now full of beautiful flowers 7’ high.

Ah, Feng Shui. More evidence that no matter how bizarre it is, this stuff never goes away.

Here are some links to articles I wrote dealing with this topic. Both of these are multi-topic columns, so they’re not all about Feng Shui.

The part on FS is the last one here:
http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v05/n04/reallity-check.html

This one’s a little bit more than half the page down:
http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v05/n04/reallity-check.html

Excuse me sir, a Mr. David, these are the same links. Sorry to have bother you sir. :slight_smile: