I’m only 8 hours from St. Louis. When should I start to panic?
There’s a Panera Bread in my town. I think I’m going to panic.
Some of y’all seem to have a misapprehension of what the “message” of a riot is. To wit, this shit will cost you.
It’s not about “bettering society,” it’s purely reactive.
CNN just showed a forensic evidence document from the Grand Jury document dump that definitively shows that Mike Brown has moved at least 25 feet back towards Wilson.
Do you see the desperation in this community? They finally get to loot and where do they go? McDonalds. Walgreens. So much for the American dream.
Well, I guess the rioters figured out how to stay warm on a cold night. :rolleyes: urban campfires
Yes, Napoleon is clearly the democratic model you want to follow.
This is happening because the criminals know the cop’s hands are tied. It’s been reported for weeks how the local cops got schooled on the constitutional rights of protesters. They got Eric Holder and his bunch just itching to file civil rights charges against a cop. So there’s not much the cops can do except stand in a line and lob tear gas. No one wants to shoot one of these guys and become the next Darren Wilson. They don’t pay cops enough to risk jail.
At some point the violence will end on its own. Until then its going to get ugly.
Post bookmarked for the next time i’m tempted to take your arguments seriously in any conversation about democracy, constitutionality, judicial procedure, and the justice system more generally.
Liberals:
Bill Cosby is a rapist and we don’t need a trial to prove that!
Darren Wilson murdered Brown and we don’t need a trial to prove it!
George Zimmerman is guilty and fuck the jury’s verdict!
Ah, liberals. Petty authoritarians just like the Republicans.
And what’s the matter with the libs? Getting tired of the other black guy, Obama? Of all blacks why must you choose a dead guy to be your standard holder? A guy who robbed a store, beat up a cop, and had been smoking weed.
Wow it’s almost as if InfiniteRacist would be a more apt username for you.
The Obama card? Really? You’re that desperate? I guess all blacks have to get lumped into the same narrative in your little world, right?
Your problem—well, ONE of your problems—is that you fail to understand the difference between a socio-cultural opinion and a legal verdict.
I believe that, given the weight of the testimony, Bill Cosby is probably a rapist. If i were on a jury where Bill Cosby were charged with rape, however, it would need far more evidence than i have seen in the news for me to convict him of the charge, and in the vast majority (all?) of the cases, he is probably beyond the statute of limitations, so i understand that he would be beyond criminal punishment anyway.
I believe, based on my reading of the case, that the Grand Jury in the Ferguson case reached a decision compatible with the facts, with the case presented by the prosecutor, and with the law as it currently stands. I also believe that Michael Brown contributed in considerable measure to the violence of the encounter. None of this prevents me from believing that there is structural racism in America’s police forces, or that Officer Wilson would have treated a white suspect differently under otherwise-identical circumstances.
I believe that the evidence available, especially the lack of eyewitnesses to the beginning of the altercation, meant that the right decision was reached in the Zimmerman case. I also believe, however, that Zimmerman was largely responsible for the confrontation, that this resulted from his preconceptions about black male teenagers, and that he bears considerable responsibility for the circumstances leading to the death of Trayvon Martin. I also believe it’s possible that he began the altercation, contrary to his own testimony in the matter, because i believe him to be an unreliable and fundamentally dishonest person. But, in our justice system, being an asshole doesn’t make you guilty of a crime.
What use do they have for sympathy?
It just occurred to me that the community leaders and other peaceful marchers never got an opportunity to assemble after the grand jury ruling. Didn’t the criminals move in with the riots almost immediately? They’ve hijacked a community movement that had long standing grievances with the policing in Ferguson.
I’m glad they stayed off the streets tonight. Hopefully they can be heard after order is restored.
Tell me (looking from outside): why is this happening? The United States has the largest economy in the world. America has extraordinary resources. Most of you are educated. Your legal system is admired and deservedly so. American law goes further than most other nations to protect the rights of the individual.
I just don’t understand the over-reaction by people in Ferguson. Certainly Mr Browns extended family and supporters can be expected to be angry but that’s an understandable process of grief.
Here there are unrelated people shooting guns, torching cars and buildings? Maybe in Somalia or eastern Ukraine but in the Home of the Free??
Racism here runs deep. The largely white police force has a long and complex history of targeting non-white individuals and not doing right by them. This case has been held up as a perfect example of problems that have existed ever since white people showed up on this continent, killing the people who already lived here and taking over the land on the backs of their slaves.
It’s centuries old and deeply ingrained, complicated, and way too slow to change. I’m too tired to get into specifics, it’s been a long night and I’m getting my butt to bed as I have to be up in 5 hours. I’m sure someone with a more in depth explanation will come along.
That’s a helluva question, Ken001. If forced to cough up an answer, I’d say that yes, this is the land of the free. For a large subset of people, that means free to be poor, free to be disenfranchised, free to be a have-not in a culture dominated by haves.
To me that leads to endemic resentment that can flare up in response to perceived injustice. It also could be that more than a few of the looters and arsonists in Ferguson tonight do not live there but have come there opportunistically. In point of fact, Brown’s family have repeatedly called for peace and calm tonight and previously. It looks like Steve Martin’s character Navin Johnson in the film The Jerk got some substantial advice from his (black) brother when Navin left home to find his way in the world : “Don’t trust whitey.” I’m an American Indian, so I can’t say I entirely disagree with it.
ETA : Wow. Eerie simul-post.
nm
Sorry, my iPad died last night, mid-response. I can imagine a situation where community leaders and Michael Brown’s parents were given a venue to directly address the crowds, calling for peaceful protest. Something sanctioned and assisted by law enforcement, rather than from minute one being treated like the enemy. That attitude sets up confrontation. A reporter I was watching said the crowd was trying to police itself but then the cops threw smoke canisters.
Having lived for many years in St Louis and my son was born there, I am very sad for the violence and the criminal acts that were done. I believe more could have been done to avert it, if possible.
Because it’s offers an interesting perspective but I personally can’t vet it. I don’t believe it’s inaccurate, but if someone has info that contradicts it, that’s fine.
The prosecutor could have done his job. He should have said “A young man was killed and he may be entitled to justice, here are some crimes I think he might need to stand trial for.” THEN we get all that awesome evidence and openness at trial.
Instead he said “Hey you guys, here’s a big pile of evidence and a crimeless victim. I dunno, some of you figure it out.”