Steve, you are overdoing it. We don’t know that he “emptied his gun”, unless you’ve got something I didn’t see. The fact is that he was shot at least six times, and the facts are damning enough. Also, the “videotape shows paying” is still a maybe, it raises questions, it does not answer them. It would, however, explain why Mr Brown was so much at ease strolling down the street as if he had nothing to worry about, but that remains a “maybe”.
As far as the “pot crazed loony” meme goes, I don’t recall anything about a “paid expert”, IIRC, that was simply another “source”. If correction is appropriate, I will welcome it.
So you’re saying that by taking on the job of a police officer you are agreeing to take beat downs from citizens as one of the hazards of work?
Mike Tyson weighed about 225 I think.
Holyfield was around the same.
Brock Lesnar is 290.
Michael Brown weighed 300lbs and is several inches taller than any of those guys.
You think a cop should be able to take him in a fist fight just because he’s a cop? Would you feel your life was threatened if you got blasted in the face by any one of those guys? What if the cop was a 150lb woman? Would you feel the same?
Cubsfan, you’re missing the point. First, you have no idea if the cop was punched or not. The only evidence of his injury, so far, is a right-wing blog’s reporting, and even then you don’t know how he received it. And second, getting punched doesn’t mean you get to shoot someone. We need to know more about what actually went down before you know whether the shooting was justified.
Your’re complaining about others jumping to conclusions, but you’re also giving a very good demonstration of what that looks like.
If people were rioting and issuing death threats to you and your family because you had the audacity to fight back after being assaulted by a drugged-out shoplifter, you’d want to be Somewhere Else too.
Yes, but that just explains that a bullet entry at the back of the arm didn’t necessarily come from the rear of the person. It doesn’t address the path of the bullet through the arm.
And if they were fighting toe to toe, that might be a reason for him to use his weapon. But many reports have Brown exiting the scene when he was shot. If that’s the case, then no, the officer didn’t have cause to shoot.
He could have responded non-lethally such as a takedown, taser, or mace. He could have radioed for backup and assisted in sealing the area. What he doesn’t get to do is pull his gun and shoot the guy for hitting him. Or he could have just let him go and got him later with, you know, police work.
So the appropriate response would have been what? To ask his assailant politely to please stop hitting him? Should he have called for a time-out while he opened the trunk of his cruiser and got out the Taser?
The suspect had already assaulted him and made a play for his gun. He was a deadly threat and the officer had the legal authority to use force. Every new revelation is making the “THE COP MURDERED THIS POOR UNARMED BOY BECAUSE HE WAS RACIST AND DECIDED TO GO OUT THAT MORNING AND KILL SOME BLACK PEOPLE” narrative harder and harder to justify.
Exiting while facing the officer with his hands outstretched in the officer’s direction. Riiiiight.
Unless the police also have access to Star Trek-style transporters, the only area they would likely have arrived to seal in time was the site of the officer’s death.
The real world doesn’t operate the same way fights in elementary school did where a couple people slap and push each other then one cries “Uncle. That’s enough man. You win!”. Once you physically attack somebody you’ve taken your life in your own hands as they defend themselves, plain and simple. If the cop chased the dude down the block and shot him while he was running away then you’d have a point, but it doesn’t sound like there was enough time for this to be a retribution/revenge killing as you describe. It all happened very quickly from the sounds of it. Which is probably why no one captured the incident on a cell phone camera, or at least hasn’t turned over a video of the incident…
I find it difficult to take cautionary advice not to jump to conclusions from anyone willing to pronounce something like this based on part of a post on a message board.
I’ve never had a traumatic encounter with cops. Been yelled at once and treated brusquely several times, but that’s the extent of it for me and most white males of my age. But I agree fully with SteveG1 that “protect and serve” must be given higher priority than “submit to authority.” Yes, respect for the orders of a law enforcement officer is necessary for a civil society, but those orders must be based on something besides dominance and control.
I’m starting to think we’re all looking at two entirely different situations.
Here is the situation as I see it:
Preliminary: There was a scuffle between the officer and Brown. The officer contents that his weapon discharged inside the vehicle as Brown went for it.
This, as far as I can tell, is unverified. I’m unaware of any witness statements that mention a fight with the office at the vehicle. Additionally, if Brown’s hands were inside the car when the weapon fired, it’s been mentioned (by me) that he should gunpowder residue on his hands from being in an enclosed space and within such a short distance of the weapon. However, clothing analysis has not been disclosed and may reveal more.
What happens next is entire crux of the situation.
Bad Fire situation: Witnesses contend that Brown was exiting the scene when the officer fired at his back. Brown turned and was struck several more times while trying to surrender. They had Brown at some distance to the cop. This would be a bad shoot scenario. The suspect is no longer a lethal force and it looks like the cop is pissed and taking it out on the suspect.
Good Fire situation: The Officer contents that Brown moved away from the vehicle and as the officer exited, Brown taunted, then charged the officer. This would be a proper shoot as the officer can say that he had a reasonable fear for his safety and life.
One quibble, Sinaptics, I think multiple witnesses confirm that some sort of struggle occurred at the window of the police vehicle. I’ve seen two witnesses say they thought Wilson was trying to pull Brown into the car. This doesn’t make much sense, but if Wilson was trying to open the door and Brown was pushing him back into the car, it would look much the same and be more plausible IMO.