I would just suggest to these people who put this forth that child or no child, or NO CHILD DUE TO MALFUNCTIONING BODY PARTS does not make my marriage any less complete in the eyes of my God, or, for that matter YOUR God, or for that matter, THE WORLD. Everything on this earth happens for a reason.
The purpose of a marriage is to express a commitment of love between two people. Much of the time that love results in offspring. SOMETIMES, no matter how Republican, Christian, Straight, IN LOVE, dedicated, healthy they are, it doesn’t end up with anything but the longevity of a perfect companionship.
And the impression that that makes my marriage (my FAMILY) somehow incomplete, or ‘not working properly’ or wrong, or failed in the eyes of God or the State or the grand scheme of the universe is HURTFUL and just plain mean.
Not to take away from your rant, Jarbaby (if I remember correctly, you’ve had some serious difficulties with having kids, for which you have my sincere sympathy), but I would also like to add that no child due to choosing not to have one also does not make my marriage, family, or me as a woman incomplete or somehow invalid. Sheesh. People need to learn to just tend their own knitting.
Jar, I can certainly see your pain from my house. It pisses me off that these idiots speak outta their asses without any regard for who’s feelings they might hurt by making statements like that. I really don’t need to get into the argument about marriage being empty without procreation, because, frankly, that is just a bunch of shite the pious spout to make themselves more superior. You’ll never win an argument with one who is convinced that they know GOD’S HOLY PLAN because he must have shown up and told them directly. :rolleyes:
You’ve just got to remember that they’re just mad because there is something so unquestionably lacking in their lives and personalities, that they act out the only way they know how, and wouldn’t know a deep, meaningful union with another human being if it showed up with a neon sign, bit them in the ass, and did Riverdance on the roof of their rectory.
Back any one of these unmerciful assholes into a corner, and they’ll also tell you that the fact that you haven’t been able to have children yet is because it must be God’s judgement on you as a person. Really. Where in the hell was God’s judgement when any one of the worlds starving or abused waifs was born to a dysfunctional household?
Try not to let your patience wear thin, honey. We’re rooting for you, and they’re gonna be surprised at what they have to answer for when they die.
Wow. That’s just un-fucking-believable. Nice to know sterility is “acceptable.” :rolleyes"
And a “family” is just a mother, father and children? What about cousins and aunts and uncles? What about my nieces? And my in-laws? My brother-in-law? My sister-in-law? What about my step-mother? My family includes step-children. Do they count?
What about my husband’s 5,000 cousins? (Think My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Italian-style) I really like most of them. Aren’t they my family, too?
From time to time I’ll turn on Rush Limbaugh when there’s nothing else on the radio. When I checked him out a couple of days ago he was getting started with his version of what marriage is all about. He starts with his big wind up about what he’s going to tell you, and how wrong everybody else is, and how important his words are, and… well, you know how he goes on and on. Anyway he says that marriage, other than being about committment, is all about “from the earliest times, as an evolutionary linch-pin, blah, blah,blah…” procreation. That’s when I’d had enough. I’d rather listen to Garth Brooks.
The whole idea that a marriage is defined on the ability to/only to procreate is pure crap to me. It is not anybodys business on who why people get married. I mean some people get married for the convienence of being married (i.e., high society types), some people get married because of a pregnancy, and some get married just because they love eatch other very much- As long as there is love and respect between the two people it should not matter is they are straight or gay/lesbian. It **shouldn’t ** be up to the government to decide.
I got married in October last year (so I have been married for 4 whole months now) and people me and husband know are giving us grief because we are not working on starting family yet- WTF!! Ummmm… mainly because he is working on his MS in geology right now and works full time (40-60 hrs a week) as well on top of that and I work full time (40-50 hrs a week) and planning on starting my MS soon…and, oh yeah… also we dont feel like having kids right now- maybe never.
Then some people have told us since we are not planning on having kids then we should not have gotten married- like it is any of thier gosh-darn business. Others have said I should have them now “while I am young-before it is too late” (i will be 28 this year) and worry about getting my MS later… ummmmm excuse me??? :mad:
They just tell me I am selfish- I say well fuck you! (sorry slight hijack there)
I’m glad Polycarp hasn’t been around recently. I know what arguments like that do to him. I don’t want kids. I’m no good with them, and I know what my father’s attempts to deal with his issues did to me and I cannot morally inflict those issues on another human being, especially not one who’s biggest sin would be being born to me rather than someone who would be a better parent. Should I, then, live my life celibate? Should I not know the pleasure of a smile from my husband at the end of the day or the frustration when he knows full well it’s his turn to clean the toilet? What of those who want children and who would be dead good parents but aren’t able to have them? And, marriage is to be declared for the purpose of raising healthy children, why don’t we make marriage illegal to those who abuse children?
It is amazing how many people would deny others a privilege they enjoy themselves. Oh, yes. I forget. It doesn’t apply to them. :rolleyes:
My own elaboration on this: I’m not married, nor am I dating anyone. I’m as single as single can be. I’m still part of a family. I’ve got parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, even people with whom I share no DNA, but who are none-the-less as close to me as kin. Anyone who tries to tell me that my best friend since the age of three isn’t part of my family is going to have a fight on his hands.
Family is about love. End of fucking story. I have strong blood ties to people that I wouldn’t give the time of day to, and I have aunts and uncles and cousins that I love dearly, despite the fact that they’re no kin to me. Love is all that’s important.
Well, food and air and water are pretty important too. They just don’t have much bearing on the subject at hand.
My brother in law died a few weeks ago. He and my sister didn’t have any children. But if anyone tries to tell me they weren’t really married, or my sister isn’t really a widow, well … they’d better not try it, that’s all.
Wow, I guess this means I’m not married according to those people’s beliefs eh? I have no utereus now, I can’t possibly get pregnant, and we may never decide to have children via surrogacy. (I do still have my ovaries.) What a tragedy our “sham” of a marriage must be! raises eyebrow and looks truculent
Give me a break! It’s none of their Ogforsaken business if people don’t or can’t have offspring as a result of a marriage. In fact, I’d say that at the very least, it’s a personal decision that should be left up to the individuals in question. At most, it should also be noted that due to the amount of people already living, and not entirely able to support themselves, the fact that not everyone has offspring is not a bad thing.
As other people have said, it’s about the emotional ties, and the honorable keeping of private vows, not whether or not children are produced. As my grandfather would say every once in a while “That’s just plumb stupid!”
A dear aunt of mine died two weeks ago. She and her husband were married for almost fifty-six years, and they never had children. I will never know why, as I would never have dreamed of asking them. It was none of my business.
But if anyone tries to tell me they weren’t a family they will have me to deal with. When she was failing in the hospice, although still just strong enough to have visitors, my dad, her brother, brought her husband to visit. My uncle is in a nursing home, being feeble and having some form of dementia. He can’t really follow what you are saying all that well, or hold a conversation, but sometimes he’s a little more lucid than other times. And this was one of those better days. According to my father my aunt told her husband “I don’t think I’ll be here much longer”, to which he replied “Well, then maybe I’ll follow you”. The love that bound them was what made them a family, not children they never had.
This BS about children being the purpose of marriage has been annoying as hell to me also. When Patti and I got married she was 49 years old. I have a vague recollection of her saying something about if I wanted to have children we’d better start right right away, but for all I know it might already have been too late.
We had both been raised Catholic, and (primarily for my grandmother’s sake) we went through the formality of a church wedding. This meant we had to attend Cana Conferences and have a meeting with a priest. Part of this included agreeing that any children we had would be raised Catholic. When this subject came up I started to make some comment about the unlikeliness of us having children. It was almost funny the way the priest cut me off before I could finish; obviously it was a big no-no to even suggest that our union might not result in procreation.
Every time I hear that line about the “purpose” of marriage is procreation I want to vomit. What, after they get done constitutionalizing discrimination of homosexuality they’re going to annul the marriage of anyone who didn’t/can’t reproduce? Outlaw marrying a post-menopausal woman? Make men submit sperm samples prior to issuing a marriage license?
Sick motherfuckers - they’re so desparate to beat up on gay people they don’t care who else they hurt in the process. “Sanctity of marriage” my sweet ass, they don’t give a damn about marriage, only about perpetuating their own flavor of hatred.
Yep…know that pain myself - having gone through the whole “marriage that wasn’t producing children” (I eventually gave birth to Baby Surprise after adopting). My sister has been trying to concieve for five years - with her husband. My cousin has been working on it for just as long - with her husband. Funny how I think these people are married - regardless of whether they will concieve (or intend to - I also know plenty of people childless by choice who are married). I think there are a LOT of people hypersensitive on that topic - and I’m seeing the anti-gay marriage folks starting to do themselves some harm with that argument as people who aren’t necessarily pro-gay marriage become offended with the sudden thought that their marriage (or their sister’s marriage, their mother’s second marriage, whatever) may not be a marriage in the eyes of these people.
My grandfather and grandmother (his second wife) married when she was in her fifties. She never had children and by the time they married, she’d had a hysterectomy due to some health issues. They had a wonderful loving marriage.
I know plenty of people that have concieved children without marriage as well - a few that had “accidents” they will pay eighteen years of child support on. Seems to me that marriage and children are correlated events - but somewhat independant.
I don’t want kids. I’m no good with them, and I know what my father’s attempts to deal with his issues did to me and I cannot morally inflict those issues on another human being, especially not one who’s biggest sin would be being born to me rather than someone who would be a better parent. Should I, then, live my life celibate? Should I not know the pleasure of a smile from my husband at the end of the day or the frustration when he knows full well it’s his turn to clean the toilet? What of those who want children and who would be dead good parents but aren’t able to have them? And, marriage is to be declared for the purpose of raising healthy children, why don’t we make marriage illegal to those who abuse children?