Fight Club ( warning spoiler)

Ok now I need help with the movie “Fight Club”.

I watched it last night and it seeemed kind of on the heels of Eyes Wide Shut although I must say I liked it better than EWS.

I wanted to like it alot, cause I like Ed Norton and Brad Pitt.

But I guess I need an explanation about most of the movie.

I realize that Pitt was Ed Norton’s alter ego. But I just didn’t get all the rest of if for sure.

Was it Norton’s wishes to blow up all the credit card companies? If so why?

Shit maybe I missed the entire point. Very possible.

And what the fuck was Meatloaf’s role (Bob)? And what was the point of the fight club…besides beating the shit out of each other?

And how did he (Norton) blow out his cheek at the end of the movie while blowing out the entire back of Pitt’s head? And wouldn’t any wound like that be too traumatic to endure while conscious?

I kept saying to myself as I watched this movie…Hey I kinda like this…but WTF?

And don’t call me stupid or I will beat the ever loving shit outa ya. :slight_smile:

** aha, ** you’re soooooo, what’s the word?? Subtle?

I liked the movie up to a point, but they lost me as far as motivation when it turns out he’s been talking to himself the whole time. So, he’s ALSO chasing himself from town to town!?

It seemed as though, at first the whole premise was about simplification. Lifestyle, primarily then with relationships too. But, it became pretty hypocritical when he’s driving bigger and nicer cars, and yet wanting to blow up how people get their lifestyles out of whack in the first place, credit card companies. Would that really change anyone??? I don’t think so.

The acting was good, but as you mentioned, Norton wouldn’t have been able to just blow up * part of his head * without dying, OR when HE was saved, Brad would have been saved too.

The fighting, or maybe just the aggressiveness was a throwback to simpler times. The better man was the stronger man. The black eyes were ‘battle awards’ to be admired only silently.

I’m glad I didn’t go to see it in the theater, but I’m also glad that I did finally see it.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Bosom Pal Bob. Well, I’d take it one of two ways. Either the writer just wanted him for comic relief, OR he was the symbol for softness in ourselves, the breasts meaning the nurturing we all need. Just a WAG, obviously!

Seeing as these are general questions about a certain movie, I think I’ll move this thread to…General Questions!

The first half of the movie is a telling look into unfulfilling consumerism and the second half, which most of your problems come, is about an unrealistic look at schizophrenia with anarchist overtones.

I was completely blown away by the editing, pacing, acting, and script of this movie until it reached the part where Norton realizes he’s Pitt. Here are some answers to this movie’s stupidity:

  1. Norton shoots himself and manages to miss his head. Probably because he made the effort to kill Pitt (a part of himself) he magically managed to pull both parts of his personality together.

  2. Norton wanted to destroy the credit unions because it would destroy the American economy leading to anarchy, he talks about working the field and bartering and such. Maybe you had to get up to pee.

  3. The fighting and the terrorism go hand in hand, Norton is a victim of the domestication of the human animal and the unfulfilling life of work, spend, and sleep. Beating each other up was their way to be animalistic and manly and destroying society was their way to free everyone from the modern consumerist lifestyle.

I completely agree with you, this movie is confusing and an incredible loss of potential when you consider how great the first half was.

Well, I’m not equipped to mount a full-blown defense of Fight Club but I must say that I never detected the ‘breakdown’ of the movie that is being discussed here. Just because the multiple personality revalation isn’t particularly authentic, it serves a very precise and effective function in the story. The Fight Clubs themselves are certainly a movement to become more primal and aware of instinct, which eveolves into a directed movement to reduce the modern playing field apparatus to a level more suited to these primitives.

I’m sure the half-suicidal gunshot scene was difficult for the writers to swallow, but if disbelief is suspended, as in my case it was, then the way that it concludes the dramatic conflict is elegant enough.

I really liked the unresolved story, the lack of a true hero or villain. That aspect of it rings true loudly enough to overpower the devices that move the story forward.

Can multi personality disorder really be like that? Could someone realy beat themselves up w/o knowing it? I thought you had to be one personality at a time, not two at once. Strange movie. Thank you.

I just watched this movie on Saturday. I liked it. I thought the motivation to blow up the credit companies stemmed from Nortons rampant consumerism leading to debt which led to his insomnia and then his psychological problems. Although this is not explicitly stated it is my take on it. I agree the fight club was a way to get back to nature and our more animal ways. Meat Loaf was another dual individual mixing womanly aspects (breasts) with manly traits (body building/fight club). I also agree that shooting himself in the cheek would not destroy Pitt. Therefore he is lying to himself in believing Pitt is gone.

I did have a question maybe soomeone can answer. When Norton is describing Tyler/Pitt he says he likes to splice frames into movies that people won’t consciously see. Before that discussion I noticed three such instances while watching the movie. It looked like a single frame was inserted in the rest of the scene on three different occasions. Does anybody know what those frames were? I thought it was a person, but it was so fast I really couldn’t tell.
John

The scenes in the beginning are little glimpses of Tyler. At first, they are just one frame, then a few more, then Tyler passes him on the people mover, then he has a discussion with him on the plane. He slowly enters Norton’s life.

At the end, right before the credits, they put in a frame of the big penis.

I believe he gets rid of Pitt with the gunshot. If he’s capable at the end of controlling his thoughts and beliefs to get the gun back, he can control the part of him mind that is Tyler Derden to believe that he shot himself in the head.

AntiPro: The point of the fights is not a “the stronger man is the better man”. In fact, at no point is any award given or kudos given to the winner of a fight. The loser is very much congratulated as much as the winner is. The point of the fight is not the winner or loser, it is the fight, the act of empowering yourself.

And also, he doesn’t chase himself around from town to town. During those times the Tyler part of his personality takes over and he IS Tyler. Norton has very little recollection of this - you’ll recall once he realizes that Tyler is him, there are a few flashbacks of HIM yelling the rules of Fight Club, talking to the girl, etc.

I need to watch it again to figure out the relationship with the girl.

Also, you’ll notice that at no point does he introduce himself, nor does anyone call him anything but “sir”, except in the bar.

His alter ego was an anarchist. But you can’t go around in major motion pictures blowing up federal buildings these days – it is somewhat apropos. So if you can’t blow up something govermental, you have to blow up something (period, really, it is Hollywood :wink: ) economic. Hence credit card companies.

Remember all the training, pooring acid on the hand, etc.? He had trained himself so shock was not a problem. I thought he was just going to be dead at the end ala another movie I saw a while back I won’t spoil but you know the one. There are tales of people going to blow their heads off which then miss. I think it all goes to point to a total insane self destructiveness making its final transformation from Norton to Tyler – Tyler has not so much “died” as Norton has become what he had beheld, and you can see the Norton side of Norton slowly undergoing this transformation over the course of the whole film.

This movie is almost more entertaining. Notice that Pitt and Norton (strange, I can’t remember his character’s name) are never in the same room as Carter (the girl). She never sees them together. Her reactions to Norton make sense the first time around because she’s been portrayed as a whacked-out junkie. They make sense the second time around because she’s the only one who sees both sides of Norton.

I haven’t had a chance to see it all the way through the second time, but as far as hoo-ha’s question goes, I’d agree with Connor, as it’s the explanation my brother and I came up with independantly. Regardless of the actual damage, the gun-in-the-mouth shot shows his power over Tyler Durden. The nervousness Pitt exhibits in the last few seconds seal the case for me.
Some other points: I remember certain things being odd: Norton’s amazing ability to beat the crap out of himself during his confrontation with the boss… I remember thinking, “He’s pretty darn good at that”. Of course, he had a lot of practice. Also, almost everything was seen from Norton’s perspective as the narrator, except for one or two with Pitt’s perspective. That was disjointed enough to strike me as odd, but I didn’t come to the realization until I was supposed to. I think this was a very well done movie- I could have shortened the exposition with the self-help groups, but overall, pretty good.

other than the false names he gives at the group meetings, he doesn’t have a name. i’m sure he does, but it isn’t revealed.

In the credits, they list Edward Norton’s character as “Narrator”.

BTW, isn’t Edward Norton SOOOOO SEXY? :slight_smile:

I like to go back and watch it again and watch the interactions of Pit, Norton and Pit Norton and the Girl.

It’s very neet to see the way she reacts to the two sides of the personality.

The part where he was talking to himself in the car before it crashes was good too…the people in the back must have been: ‘what the hell is this guy on’.

Also, a lot of people i talked to didn’t notice the ‘big, fat cock’ at the end. I thought it was clear as day.

Oh well, it was a great movie.

I really enjoyed Fight Club. The reason I enjoyed it so much is that I read a completely different meaning into the bulk of the movie than what has been presented here. Since I don’t know the writer personally, your guess is as good as mine with regards to his intent.

The film does not make any statements about consumerism its self. Tyler does. Tyler makes the statements that he does because that’s why Norton’s character (henceforth referred to as Norton) created him. At no time does the movie encourage us to believe that Tyler’s ideas are good, logical or profound. The movie does illustrate how and why humans, in times of desperation, will cling to each other. That’s the point from the first scene of the testicular cancer group session to the last scene of Norton abandoning childish things once he achieves a sense of strength.

In the beginning, Norton seeks to challenge himself in order to identify his personal worth. His efforts to achieve a sense of worth through hard work and material success have come to a halt. His life is not progressing. He does not sleep because, subconsciously, he does not believe that he has earned sleep. He destroys his possessions because they distract him. He physically abuses himself because feelings of real pain give him moments of absolute clarity when he can separate himself, the thing that hurts, from the instrument of his torture, be it an object, an action or a person. I don’t think I’ve explained that part very well, but you can ask any athlete or masochist about the value of physical pain in order to understand what I’m getting at.

Norton tries so hard to identify himself in a world of confusion and what he perceives to be trivial shit, that he actually creates another personality which he fills with the most fundamental things that he discovers about himself. Tyler is not a complete package suddenly born out of Norton’s subconscious. Tyler is the collection of discoveries that Norton makes through the course of the film while he is investigating every aspect of his existence (“I am Jack’s colon . . .”) in order to find a reason to keep living. In the end, it doesn’t matter where he shoots himself or if he does it at all. What’s important is that he has finally come to understand what death means. Thus he is able to separate life and death, identify his position is the play between the two and find value in himself. The self-discovery project is ended and Norton no longer needs is scratch paper. Tyler is balled up and thrown away.

There’s the basic outline as I see it. Now for the details.

Norton builds an army. An army of weak, lost souls. Men (and one woman) who have lost sight of their values as humans. Some, like Bob, are challenged by realities of the physical world, the flesh. Some are just dissatisfied with the identities that they have achieved within society. Some, like Marla, are just lonely. She has lost sight of herself because she has no one around her to use as a basis for comparison.

Speaking of Bob coming to terms with the reality of the flesh . . . Consider that, once he died and was nothing more than I pile of flesh, the world knew him (“His name is Robert Paulson.”). He joined a society, fight club, where his physical limitations did not matter and only his abilities did. He was not distracted from his true self by the physical world and neither were his mates. That pile of flesh was Robert Paulson, no matter what condition it was in.

Tyler’s army followed him, not because they believed in his ideas, but because they were all desperate to believe in something. The simple reality of the pain and struggle brought to them through fighting made everything else seem that much more real and believable. It didn’t matter what he asked them to do as long as some reward was attached to it. The reward was not pride because “you do not talk about fight club”. The reward was obviously not physical gain because they had given up everything. The reward was honest toil and pain.

The film ends giving us the suggestion that all of these lost souls have found themselves again. Marla has come to terms with her anger and depression to clearly see the value of her life which has been challenged and nurtured by Norton and his army. The men of fight club attain a true sense of empowerment. They have set a lofty goal and achieved it, not for the benefit of society or any other questionable purpose, but for themselves. They never talked about it so there was never a chance for the value of their deeds to be poisoned by ego gratification. Norton has a woman. That’s all he gets out of the whole deal, but that’s all he needed. This isn’t just any old love affair, though. Norton has exposed Marla to the unmasked fundamentals of his personality and she loves him for it. What better accomplishment and affirmation of self worth is there than to have a beautiful woman love even the ugliest, basest aspects of you?

Maybe I saw too much in the film that wasn’t there. Sometimes that happens to me.

Crap! This is a really long post. Oops.

Here is the point of the movie as I see it, if it can be said to have one. I don’t recommend reading this if you haven’t seen the movie yet. Edward Norton’s character is a guy who has been enslaved by his career and disenfranchised by consumerism. All this disenfranchisementalism causes him to have a little anarchist deep within yearning, and eventually succeeding to be free. Actually I think Tyler is around from the very beginning, as Tyler’s nighttime activities are what is causing Norton to lose sleep.

Tyler Durden (Brad Pitt) is everything Norton has been suppressing through his career and consumer nicities. The therapy helps for a while, giving Norton some sleep and making Tyler not come out for a while. But when he leaves therapy for his business trips He still needs something, so he finds himself getting in touch with his other half.

Things get psychologically interesting here. Tyler starts “giving back” to Norton the things that he has suppressed for so long. Some of that masculine animal tribal stuff. That is what the fight club is all about. Leaving behind all that clean, safe, sterile consumerism, and getting sweaty, hurt, and taking risks. Norton’s personality starts to blend with Tyler’s, moving back to center (maybe in a roundabout way). Tyler, on the other hand, becomes a complete fascist. I don’t know why, maybe because he gets more time to play now, and has all this money and free plane tickets and what not coming in, plus he is revered by all those around him. Norton goes along with it for a while, until Meatloaf gets shot, and then he realizes that whole thing is absurd.

Meatloaf’s character serves some purpose. Meatloaf is another disenfranchised male, though for more serious (maybe not the right word–severe?) reasons. The therapy helps him some, but the fight club really makes him feel great. Then you see him get brainwashed into tyler’s cult, and eventually killed because of its madness. Meatloaf is the symbol of how Tyler starts out as “The other half to life we’ve all lost” and ends up “The part of life we were supposed to lose.”

So in the end, Norton tries to blow his own brain out. No, I’m not quite sure what to make of it exactly, but basically Norton didn’t need Tyler anymore, and didn’t want Tyler anymore. Norton had learned all the lessons that Tyler had to teach him. I think the willingness to shoot himself is sort of him passing the final exam of that lesson. Now norton’s half has been reunited with Tyler’s half, and all the psycho evil nuttyness that has been festering up in Tyler has to go. Not soon enough to save to save the western world’s credit empire (part of Tyler’s grand plan to end the world’s consumer enslavery), but what can you do? The fact that Norton didn’t succeed in killing himself is irrelivant somehow, the deed has been done in intent, and so the deed has been done.

I really liked the movie. Saw it twice, and I think I’m going to buy the DVD. (Isn’t there an alternate ending on the DVD?) I did find it strange that the movie was so gimmicky in the beginning (though gimmicky in a fun successful way) and straight story telling by the end. But I certainly forgive it for all of its faults.

If you wanna see pics of those frames, click here:

  1. At the photocopier:
    http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~heather/here/photocop.jpg

  2. At the insomnia doctor’s:
    http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~heather/here/doctor.jpg

  3. At the healing groups:
    http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~heather/here/testicul.jpg

  4. Watching Marla walk away:
    http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~heather/here/marla.jpg

And for those who have more questions about FC, here’s a website i found which explains most of the things people didn’t understand about the movie, as well as other interesting facts from the movie - which you probably had to watch over 10 times to be able to notice, hehe

http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~heather/mustard/

Don’t any you remember the first rule of Fight Club? Sheesh.

"If you wanna see pics of those frames, click here: "

Hey, thanks for the links.

Connor is of course right. This makes sense. So much sense that I could not figure it out on my own. DUH!
John

“Don’t any you remember the first rule of Fight Club? Sheesh.”

Mojo, I thought it was the second rule.

John