I agree - but also disagree
A thread like ‘What does the modern Israeli think’ would be fascinating
- but Alessan might be happier expanding on his last post, rather than setting himself up for a barrage of questions.
Can we wait and see ?
I don’t understand your point.
Anti-Semitism has very little (if at all) to do with Jewish thinking or behavior. It is the thinking of non-Jews.
For example, there are places (e.g., in Poland) where no Jews have been living for decades or more, but anti-Semitist feelings are still rampant, and the Evil Jews sup[/sup] are being blamed for just about everything.
The major difference I see is that sometimes “PC-anti-Semitics” use Israel to cover their feeling.
Wasn’t there ever an “ask the Israeli” thread?
Oh, I know that there are anti-semites out there. It’s just that as an Israeli, someone who’s never encountered old-style anti-semitism first hand, the whole concept is completely alien to my experience. Which is just the way I want it.
Like it or not, obsessing about anti-semitism is a very galuti way of thinking. It’s the sort of victim mentality we’re supposed to have left behind. We came to this country to build and be built, remember? The way I see it, if someone doesn’t like me, that’s their problem - and their loss. I’ll do everything to protect our lives and our land, but I won’t revive old boogeymen.
I you should ponder that, especially today. Remember, the Shoah won’t happen again not because the world is different, but because *we’re * different. And part of being different is defining the world in different ways.
P.S. It’s 10 AM. I find the interruption very apt.
Not that I know of. And Alessan would be, AFAIK, the only other potential culprit remaining 
P.S., and apropos of pretty much nothing… Holocaust Remembrance Day siren kicked in just as I was composing the short sentence above.
We Shall Remember.
Never Again.
You feel like reviving it, be my guest.
And I participated in it, too… Must be early-onset Alzheimer! :eek:
- post-siren *
No arguments there. I was confused at what you said earlier:
Which seems to be saying anti-Semitism is dependent on Jewish behaviour.
But I understand where you were comming from now. Thanks for the clarafication.
[hijack]
I’ve started reading the “Ask the Israeli” thread… and noticed Fin there. He didn’t post AFAIC tell since December. Anyone knows what happend?
[/hijack]
No, I would like to pick your brains, but in a different thread
- say ‘Ask a Sabra’
This is not the first post from you which suggests that while Jews in other countries are still hung up on the past, Israelis have slung off the shackles of history and need not be vigilant about anti-Semitism any longer.
At first I found this apparent sense of superiority insulting and disturbing in its ignorance.
But maybe it’s a good thing. Instead of paying attention to historical forces (which are very much alive), the key concern for you and your countrymen should be eliminating the self-destructive policies of Israel, which unlike bigotry you can do something about.
To whom are you refereing?
I am not Israeli or Jewish, but I’ve had an opportunity to watch what has been going on there for some time - since 1991 to be precise.
I’ve seen things change from Sabras joking about Russian immigrants, to seeing blank faces (suppressed irritation) when the same jokes were repeated.
The Israelis have produced their own race, they are different, they view Jews as wimps - they are a nation - not a golf club.
Allessan
Pool sorry to hear of your loss.
Re Koranic verse Are you reading the same verse?* Sure, it narrates some battle involving Jews, but then it also involves loquacious flora and minerals so there’s some doubt about the right methods of interpretation here*
defeat Zionism Right. So it’s OK then, right? * Serves to demonstrate that Jewish people are not the concern.*
Do re-read the charter, will you.* I must say for such a close and dedicated reading of the charter it is surprising that not one of the scholars in this thread lighted upon this passage , it’s not like it’s hidden or anything:
The heading is kind of a giveaway, don’t you think?*
You are not a lawyer, are you? * Outrageous!*
None of which is forthcoming. Thus, you must acquit!" * But in the genocide claim, there is nothing but an ambiguous line of text, in a context that does not support the accusation. Your comparison does not hold, nor is evidence sufficient to show death and no other solution present.*
I read it carefully. It is almost entirely devoted to proves of the anti-Semitic nature of Hamas. * Your interpretation and English isn’t your primary language.*
So, you feel that is Israel had a majority Muslim population and Islamic leadership, Hamas would still continue its activities without change? :dubious: * No-one who has read the Hamas charter could ask that question. In any case it is almost an excellent question, save for ‘Muslim’ & ‘Islamic’. Instead ask about Quakers and Hindus. Then sure, Hamas would respond in just the same manner. It’s the occupation that irks not the ethnicity. *
- Minority Jewish population in Isr* Cite? * In a bit*
But tell you what: I’ll return the challenge. …* I think it rude when a question is replied to with another question instead of an answer.*
Show me that the Nazis hostility toward the Jews was independent of the Jewish presence at Europe. Hitler lead the Nazis with a passion, they would have pursued Jews to the ends of the Earth.
And Shodan’s learning task of today is to write a job description for ‘Prophet.’
Sure. That is why they include lies about the French Revolution, WWI, the Masons, and various fraternal organizations that, with the single exception of WWI, all occurred prior to the founding of Zionism. It is simply false to claim that all those lies were stated in the context of Israel or Zionism. *
No, that’s all prologue to claims concerning the misbegotten state and nature of Israel. *
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No, just all the Jews in the Levant. * Again, a no evidence position.*
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a “prayer” that includes a number of blatant lies and which speaks only of destruction, not coexistence.* If lies, that still doesn’t make them anti-semitic. Look through this thread, the evidence the very contrary.*
contextual evidence- You are repeating yourself.* no, the point is the contextual evidence of the charter supports my view.*
… People do not put plans in charters or constitutions, so this is merely a red herring. * That’s kind of silly don’t you think?*
- Though experiment* Intersting experiment. The Jews have to leave their homes in Israel, but the Arabs do not have to leave their homes. Where do you propose the Jews & etc… * Thought experiment. Not a policy proposal.*
There is no such evidence. PLO Charter
The Hamas rant is against Judaism, not Israel or even Zionism. * Neither Judaism nor rant. *
They’re Nazis! is Hi-Efficiency button-pushing in the US.
Actual facts are a little nuanced if you want to stir up hysteria.
I think one would have to struggle in order to interpret it any other way that “let’s kill the Jews”. But I guess we’ll have to disagree on that.
As I pointed before, Hamas knows how to distinguish Zionism from Judaism when they choose to.
Here, let me highlight some parts you might have missed in that passge:
Bolding added.
True, on both parts. So help analyze otherwise, OK? Here is the passage in full. I colored the parts I consider to support anti-Semitism in red, others in blue (neutral stays black). Please correct as needed.
Much red, little blue = mostly in support of the anti-Semitic nature, no?
Right… because everyone knows that the Quakers where behind the French revolution and the Hindus control the Free Masons :dubious: .
Methink you’re avoiding the question.
ETA: You do realize that Hamas and the PLO are not the same, right?
I think that it is silly for you to play word games by saying the Hamas charter does not define a plan against the Jews when no charter or constitution ever defines a plan.
If you wish to claim the lies they included in their own charter regarding the French Revolution, the Masons, WWI, and other groups as anything other than a rant, that is your problem. Appealing to such false statements, to say nothing of relying on the forgery of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a means to lay out the way that the Jews (not Israelis) have behaved badly in the past means that Hamas in intrinsically a dishonest group. For you to pretend that any of those events had anything to do with Israel indicates that you are willing to accept the lies of Hamas and to then further their lies, yourself.
Interesting language. Vague enough to sound good, but also vague enough to be easily manipulated. Why do they not define the date when such an “invasion” occurred? Would they set that date as 1946? 1948? 1920s? 1903? 1880s? For such a well-planned document, they seem to leave quite a bit of wiggle room for retroactively deciding who they wold choose to expel.
From the Soviet Constitution of 1936:
I suggest that a single paragraph giving lip service to some ideal of religious freedom does not in any way offset paragraph after paragraph of hate speech, particularly when the hate speech is founded on dishonesty and direct lies.
Are you alleging that the Qur’an was divinely inspired, and that the passage you quoted was a valid prophecy? Interesting - I didn’t know you were a fundamentalist Muslim.
Do you feel the same about The Protocol of the Elders of Zion, which as tomndebb points out also seems to be one of the foundational documents of the Hamas charter?