The Pew Hispanic Center published a report recently that might answer some of these questions: Warning, it’s a PDF document. It’s an interesting read. Of note is the finding that the vast majority of illegal immigrants from Mexico were employed before they left they country-- in large part they came here for better jobs/pay, not because they had no job.
As for the OP, I’m all for tightening up our borders and cracking down on illegal immigrants, but we also have to deal with the demand side of the equation-- employers who are only too happy to hire illegal aliens. Some Congressional Republicans want to eliminate the “born here and you’re a citizen” practice, saying the constitution doesn’t really guarantee that right. I’m of mixed feelings about that. We’ve interpretted the constitution that way for a long time, and if the American people want to change it, we should do so thru the amendment process.
The problem is that part of the complaints in the OP seem directed at the very presence of immigrants in the States, regardless of legalities of the matter.
The fact is a majority of unassimilated foreigners in the USA are there LEGALLY; and the majority of miscreants causing a deterioration in quality of life are 100% AMERICAN CITIZENS.
You know, I live in a city that is 20% white, and I’ve never once felt like a “hated minority”. Have you ever considered that maybe your doing something wrong, or, uh, maybe you are projecting a bit?
The oft-stated excuse is that these illegals do jobs that we “spoiled Americans” will not, under ANY circumstances, do.
I pointed out to my oldest son that in 1977, prior to the effective destruction of packinghouse unions, the packinghouses paid average wages of $10.69/hour, that packinghouses offered medical and pension benefits, and that the dollar now is worth only about 1/2 what it was then.
He stated that, as disgusting as packinghouse work sounded, he’d give it a try at $ 20 an hour and that most of his contemporaries would, as well. They won’t work such an arduous job for only the $8-to-$9/hour, no benefits, currently offered; which amounts to only $4-to-$5 in “real dollars”.
Depressed wages at the worker level and bloated salaries at the executive level are turning the U.S. into a third-world country.
Both my parents spent time working in mills growing up, and both were middle class. To the extent that I ever thought about it, it seemed strange that middle class kids would do that kind of work; I know very few middle class people of my generation who do that kind of job. But you’re right – if it paid $20 an hour, plus benefits…
I think the US should drop the “born on US soil” method of naturalization and the “citizenship by marriage” naturalization, neither of these is really necessary and each case should simply be reviewed on its own merits.
It would also be best in the long run to pass a federal law declaring English to be the official U.S. language, and the only language that goverment services need to be available in. In the past immigrants had to integrate, and learning the language was a big part of that. It isn’t now, what with many places offering government services in Spanish–including public schools–which is the WORST possible thing that US people could allow to happen. It is essentially dropping a major requirement of social integration, and down the road that will only lead to trouble.
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I have also mentioned elsewhere on this board, that I have been told that the “illegal” problems in California are bankrupting many of the public hospitals there. Basically–migrant workers go to the emergency room for all their medical care and many never even attempt to pay the bills, because they move around a lot and essentially maintain no assets in the US at all, and they can’t be refused for emergency medical care. The funny part is that none of the politicians will even mention the problem, because they are afraid of angering the Hispanic voters (-it’d be interesting to get commentary from any California medical workers on this matter; is it possibly true? Is it ridiculous?..).
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Well, as to the last part, I can offer something: my husband works in a prison which has over 2,500 inmates, and only two or three are not citizens. Speaking strictly from numbers, it would stand to reason that most crime in the US is committed by citizens.
Don’t worry, there are plenty of undocumented people up here for Wal-Mart to exploit. Also the construction industry, manufacturing, home and office cleaning …
Where would you suggest they go? I know in Canada there’s no option, because they can’t get a family doctor because they don’t have health insurance because, well, they are migrant workers. Wouldn’t naturalizing them solve this problem? Or is it better to completely deprive them of health care? Even if you have no compassion whatsoever for undocumented people, surely you can see that there are public health implications (ie threats to purebred Americans) to providing no health care whatsoever to a sector of your population.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Let me tell you, I am very much in favor of cracking down in illegal immigration, but the idea that politicians should require people to show citizenship papers before getting emergency medical care is just bizarre and immoral. If convicted murders are entitled to see a doctor, I fail to see any justificiation why someone should have to prove themselves eligible to see a doctor before receiving treatment for injuries or illnesses that require a trip to the emergency room.
I recall Arizona recently had a referendum to prohibit illegal immigrants from receiving a range of public services, including hospital care. What madness! There’s a great many ways to get tougher on illegal immigration without leaving people to die in the streets for want of medical attention.
This may not paint an entirely accurate picture, since non-citizens who are convicted of committing crimes in the United States can be deported, but citizens cannot.
Perhaps the lion’s share of both legal and illegal resident aliens who commit crimes in the US are deported instead of being housed in US prisons?
[qutoe]Ravenman said:
There’s a great many ways to get tougher on illegal immigration without leaving people to die in the streets for want of medical attention.
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The problem though Ravenman is that, in Arizona at least, hospitals are literally being overwhelmed by illegals who use the emergency room and then tend not to pay. Ever. That’s unsustainable and immoral in its own right.
Build a fence that actually covers the border. Increase the number of border patrol agents. Create a computerized entry/exit system so that we may know when someone has overstayed their visa. (Can you believe we still haven’t done this?) Hire inspectors to monitor companies that are likely to hire migrant workers. Fine more than four companies a year for hiring large numbers of illegal workers (which was the total number of US companies busted in 2004, IIRC). Institute a computerized system to check on Social Security numbers so employers may know who they are hiring. Require jail terms for employers who are serial abusers of our employment laws. That’s just a few ideas. Sound good to you?
Here’s one more that I just thought up: pass a law that requires that employers shall be liable (either in part or in whole) for any emergency health care costs incurred by illegal workers that they have hired. That way, hospitals could go to the businesses that hire illegal workers if the person tries to skip out on the bill – all the hospital would need to do is ask where the patient works. It should serve as a strong disincentive for businesses to hire illegals, and would not refuse medical care to the sick and dying.
Ah. So you support kicking sick people to the curb until they can prove their citizenship? To my understanding, the referendum in Arizona would have required that anyone seeking medical care must produce proof of their citizenship or immigration status. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if a US citizen – especially one who happened to be Hispanic – didn’t have the foresight to bring his wallet with him before getting hit by a bus, he could be turned away from medical treatment, just because he doesn’t have a piece of paper. I’d be surprised if any physicians think this is a good policy, whether they consider themselves overworked or not.
And if public hospitals have insufficient capacity to care for the people of Arizona, the most logical solution is to fund more hospitals. If a police department were overwhelmed by the number of people who require protection from criminals, I don’t think the answer is to drive people out of town to limit the population. If a fire department cannot deal with the number of fires, it doesn’t make sense to first ask residents to show proof that they are in the building lawfully. Similarly, if a migrant worker is sick, it doesn’t make sense to send him back out into the public – especially if he is ill with TB, HIV, smallpox, the Martian flu, or something else that could spread through the community – just because his papers aren’t in order.
The referendum, if I recall, did NOT allow anyone to deny emergency medical care to illegals. It required that you identify yourself and give your status before you receive care, which sounds perfectly reasonable. As far as other services, maybe you haven’t heard, but they’re here ILLEGALLY.
We have TRUCKLOADS of immigrants (legal or otherwise) who do landscaping for corporations in this area. In fact, I’ve worked on a number of large campuses, and have yet to see a caucasian doing the work. While I don’t know anyone wealthy enough to employ maids or gardeners in their homes, I’m certain they exist, because I always see the truckloads of immigrants in the mansion neighborhoods.
The Mexican population you’re more likely to be affected by are those who work low-level factory jobs. They sometimes hire on at companies using the same immigration card or social security number (the place I worked at stumbled across this information while auditing their documents and found we had 20 people who hired on under the same number. Who’s gonna check??). They hire on at companies who cannot function without lower paid employees. And unlike white, resident Americans who will use a job like that as a starter job and move on to better positions, most Mexican immigrants are making really good money comparatively, and are going to keep the job for as long as the company is willing to look the other way. My husband’s company employes many Mexicans who are all from the same village in Mexico, live two or three families to a house, and ride to work together in communially-purchased cars. They’re reliable and NEVER complain because they don’t want to lose the job. They’re every company’s dream employee.