So can someone remind me what the argument is to let the settlements go up? Israelis should just build wherever they want, or they have the right to build in that particular area, and international law is wrong?
The argument is that they won the last war, and besides the Palestinians hate them, so they don’t have a right to anything anymore.
He’s still adjusting to the prospect of not being able to blame the Democrats for everything, real or imagined or filtered, anymore for the next few years (not that he won’t try, bless his heart). Responsibility’s a bitch, ain’t it, adaher?
Why the fuck do you keep doing this, adaher? Literally none of these threads of yours has gone well. When you make up some piddly reason to get upset at the Democrats for something, no one is going to go along with you.
So Obama decided that neither option was good–condemning or not condemning. He, in his best judgement, decided that choosing either way would cause problems for the U.S. He’s not, like the incoming president, a complete bumbling idiot, so we know he had his reasons.
We are political allies with Israel. We don’t want to cross them. At the same time, we don’t want to condone the Palestinians and what they do. Threading the needle is basic diplomacy.
Calling someone a coward in politics is rhetoric. And it’s, oddly, the type of rhetoric I’d expect from Trump supporters. They’re the one who want a strongman who just charges in and does shit and fuck the consequences.
Unless you have some actual moral outrage to demonstrate, this thread is stupid. Almost as if you posted it just to start a fight with the Obama supporters on this board.
In my opinion this comes four to six years too late. Israel has needed to receive some tough love from the USA for some time now. Their course of action w.r.t. settlements is clearly wrong.
Since the USA is the major support for Israel, voting for the resolution was not practical, but vetoing it was just further enabling Israel’s bad behavior. The abstention was the right course. Too bad Trump won’t continue it.
Bosda:
True, but if he had a third term ahead of him, I doubt he would have not vetoed the resolution.
Also, the U.S. insisted that the resolution include condemnations against terrorism and violence against civilians, as well as a reminder that the Palestinian Authority has an obligation to confront and dismantle terrorist groups and confiscate illegal weapons. If these were not included, the U.S. likely would have vetoed the resolution.
In view of what I cited here, he would likely not have vetoed the resolution even if he was running. According to that poll, the majority of Americans agree with the Security Council resolution. If he was running, he would probably have abstained just as he did now, because vetoing the resolution would be wrong and unpopular and supporting it would be needlessly antagonistic. This is, of course, completely aside from the difference between doing what’s right and doing what’s popular.
The only thing that makes this even remotely controversial is the usual caterwauling by Republicans against everything that Obama does including the impertinence of his very existence. In this case they are joined by a few staunchly pro-Israel Democrats. But as already mentioned, many Jewish Americans as well as many Israelis are able to see past knee-jerk ideology and are not in favor of the settlements.
wolfpup:
A majority of Americans != a majority of voters. Certain lobbies can bring out the vote in a way that is out of proportion to their percentage of the population. Pissing off Jewish voters on Israel would be like pissing off seniors on Social Security, and any politician with any part of his career still ahead of him knows that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a significant number of American Jews oppose the settlements.
A significant number of Israeli Jews oppose the settlements. This is one of the things that irks me the most about the likes of adaher and his ilk: they define support of Israel as “unthinking lockstep with Netanyahu.” Not even the country he is Prime Minister of does that; why should we?
The significant number% wise like how many LGBT folks are in the American populace (3%) ?
Far Left & Liberal Non Practicing Ethnic Only Jews are like 60 % For What Israel does with the other 40% willing to throw Israel under the bus …
And before Netanyahu it was the same when Ariel Sharon was PM. For quite a while the definition of being ‘anti-Semitic’ was to not agree with Sharon.
Crazy mono political culture.
A significant number of Israeli Jews oppose the settlements.
Rick Kitchen:
All true, but an even greater number of Jews, both Israeli and American, want Israeli-Palestinian policy to be an internal matter decided by Israelis and Palestinians, rather than pushed on them by an external force, especially one that has shown a constant anti-Israel bias (by which I mean the UN, not Obama).
AND Palestinians? :dubious:
Is this reasonable for all issues? Was it wrong for other countries to try and exert pressure on South Africa to end apartheid, or do you think that was unjustified and it should have been settled, alone, by South Africans?
If allowed to run for a third term and this vote were scheduled before the election, the vote would have been for a veto.
But I would have unhesitatingly voted for him.
I’m quite sure you are correct. I also think the abstention was the correct vote. I think the message must be sent to the Israelis that they are not always right just because they are Israelis. Their treatment of the Palestinians is unconscionable. For the US right wing as well as for a fair amount of Democrats, Israel can do no wrong. It’s time to change that attitude if we ever are to achieve lasting peace.