…you do know that “Reefer Madness” wasn’t a documentary, right?
They had no way of knowing there was nothing to be done. If the man had been a good swimmer he could have kept afloat for long enough for emergency services to arrive. You can’t just assume Oh, that man is in trouble in the water, there’s nothing anyone can do!
If your kid called you and said they see someone drowning your response would be “stay out of it”? Really?
And maybe they all had a fear of water. And none of them could swim! And they just wanted to document the event for some future legal proceedings, but they were too high and forgot about it.
At this point, I have to ask…*are you their lawyer?
[Moderating]
Saying “fuck you” to other posters is a violation of the board’s language rules. Please avoid this in the future.
No warning issued.
[/Moderating]
Suicide is not bad behavior. It is an attempt to relieve suffering by those who have nowhere else to turn. It’s when not living is actually considered better than continuing to suffer.
If you can’t imagine that much suffering, so that you think that you can just rise above it some way, then you are lucky, but also ignorant. Generally, these people tend to think that other people would be HAPPY once they were gone. “You’re better off without me.” Because that’s how much they hate themselves.
Imagine this. I run over you in my car. You are completely flat. You have the pain of every bone in your body hurting. No morphine. Nothing to stop the pain. You can’t even think about anything else other than the pain you feel, because it’s so strong.
That’s what we’re talking about here, just in another context. It’s not selfish. It’s a mental illness.
Note, this is not the same as Spice Weasel’s mother. She has a mental illness, yes. But her problem is different. It is a lack of ability to cope with the emotional problems of everyday life. And, quite often, claiming to be suicidal is at least some way to get people to care, while they really don’t intend to kill themselves.
But, even then, it’s not that they are bad people. It’s that they have a illness. Spice Weasel cutting her out of her life is not because she is evil, but because Spice Weasel doesn’t deserve her abuse.
It’s bad enough TruCelt is saying some horrible shit in this thread. Please don’t add another horrible thing. Care about other people, including the mentally ill.
Let’s be honest here. Both of you who are acting like this is okay, would it be okay if I refused to save you when you were drowning? If I didn’t at least try?
They’d be less of a problem, but they’d still be being psychopathic by laughing at the real suffering of another person, without even a guarantee the person will be okay.
That’s the only time laughing at the pain of others is acceptable. When it’s fake, or when you know they are okay. Otherwise it shows a lack of basic empathy.
Pink Schadenflloyd.
So this is obviously shitty behavior; laughing at a dying man and especially choosing to not call for help is a just shitty thing to do. I would be ashamed if I knew the individuals involved.
But since no one’s brought it up yet, mocking a dying person is free speech isn’t it? As in this literally cannot be a crime, since the people involved were only expressing their (awful) thoughts. So, it doesn’t really surprise me there are no criminal charges for this aspect of incident, as being a shitty person isn’t a crime.
The failure to act, I concede, is murkier waters legally speaking. Hypothetically speaking, if there were being charged for failure to act, the fact that they were mocking him should be immaterial, right?
Yes. Good luck getting a jury to disregard it, though.
All in all these kids will suffer close to zero consequences for their actions.
Unless somebody related to the deceased is able to get the names of the kids. Then, once the kids are 18, he/she reminds people of the situation, affecting their adult lives negatively.
Isn’t there a crime in America called “depraved indifference”?
Maybe I watched too many US cop shows.
That’s real, but as a component of actually killing someone. As I understand it, think of, say, firing shots into a crowd: even if you genuinely didn’t intend to hit anyone, it’s still so dickish a mindset that they’ll nail you for homicide anyway…
…but, again, the point is that you fired shots into a crowd with depraved indifference; they’re not prosecuting you for just being depravedly indifferent.
True. And I’m not a fan of internet vigilantism, so either way I don’t see an ideal ending here. I wish, in an era of extremism, there were more options than, ‘‘suffers zero consequences’’ and ‘‘is publicly ruined.’’
That’s merely an excuse for imposing your will (collective “you”) on another individual and depriving that individual of their freedom to choose a basic right. One has the right to die as one will, and nobody has any right to decide if a life is or is not worth living except the person who is living that life, the whole of society included. No one owes it to the “bigger world” to live a life they don’t want. Their decision really isn’t any of your business, or anyone else’s business, or everyone else’s business
Judging a suicide as “selfish” and demanding that they “look beyond their pain” is oppressive and callous, and the common assumption that the opposite is true, speaks to the bottomless desire of humanity to punish the non-compliant.
Yes, poor baby suicide - let’s just ignore everyone else’s pain because the only thing that matters in the whole wide world is YOU.
Not buying it.
I’m not saying suicide is NEVER the least evil, but the notion that all should be forgiven and the damage caused to everyone else ignored or it’s unimportant is bullshit. People do a lot of dumbshit things for dumbshit reasons, suicide included.
That is not at all what I said. But then, if my child were a teen aged black male with illegal drugs in his system, yes, i’d tell him to avoid the cops if at all possible. There would be some serious consequences going down, including a drug treatment program. But in this VERY STRICT set of circumstances, in the USA of 2017? Yes, I would tell me child to stay out of it.
Again, for the umpteenth time: I’m not saying these kids were right, just that they are human, understandable, kids. And they are neither criminal nor liable for this man’s death.
Everyone in this thread has agreed that there was no obligation to jump in the water, because that could be dangerous for the well-meaning rescuer. Can you not admit that in the US, and especially in Florida, being a black male makes calling 911 similarly dangerous? Are you really so embedded in your bubble?
I am not saying horrible shit. I am trying to help you see this from another perspective. I’m sorry that the reality in which your fellow citizens are living is so offensive to you.
Prosecutors have confirmed that there are no charges they think could apply to this.
Bastards.
I didn’t see this the first time, but it so misstates what I was saying that I feel I have to address it. I already told you higher in the thread what my problem was with you. You moved the goalposts in making it about calling the police.
You kept on saying that it was normal that these kids were laughing at a guy struggling in the water. That is was understandable. That it was human. This is entirely false. Any decent human being, when seeing someone who seems to be drowning, will want to help. Maybe they try to jump in. Maybe they talk about calling the police, whether they actually do it or not. Maybe they freeze up in fear. There are lots of normal reactions But they do. not. laugh.
I am actually worried about the consequences of the lack of charges. Maybe some of them will find the media attention to be enough to shake them up and become better people. But if they or anyone seeing this result learns that what they did was okay, then we may have a repeat of the problem in the future.
That is why it is important that I fight those who try to claim that their actions were understandable. I actually find such claims scary.