Florida Movie Theater Shooting Leaves One Dead In Altercation Over Texting

[bengangmo]

@aceplace57

That’s why I think the environment is very important. Just as an example, Zimmerman was by himself on a dark rainy night and in a green space behind the condo building. Anyone would feel much more vulnerable and frightened in that situation. A person would have a sense of danger even before getting jumped and beaten.

A guy sitting in a movie theater with 20 other people just doesn’t have that same fear. Somebody could jump you but there’s plenty of people to drag him off.

Of course that feeling of safety is only illusionary. I’ve read news reports of people buying stuff off Craigs List. They met the person in a shopping center parking lot because it seems safer. Those people still got robbed. Criminals don’t care anymore. They’ll commit crimes even when witnesses are around.

By the same token, an old, possibly sick / infirm grandfather is going to feel pretty vulnerable in a darkened, almost empty theatre. Especially if, in his knowledge / history there was a violent assault that he witnessed investigated in a theatre and if the popcorn thrower is in some way more intimidating than average

[Jack_Batty]

@aceplace57

That’s why I think the environment is very important. Just as an example, Zimmerman was by himself on a dark rainy night and in a green space behind the condo building. Anyone would feel much more vulnerable and frightened in that situation. A person would have a sense of danger even before getting jumped and beaten.

Begs the question … then what the fuck was he doing back there? Oh yeah, he had his gun to make him feel less afraid. Bit of luck, that was, huh?

[carnivorousplant]

You know, if folks were civil, if he had nicely asked the guy to quit, if the guy had replied, “It’s my daughter. She’s three. I’ll stop before the movie comes on.” And they’d smiled at each other, he’d quit, they’d all enjoy the film and we’d be bitching at each other over something else.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@carnivorousplant

You know, if folks were civil, if he had nicely asked the guy to quit, if the guy had replied, “It’s my daughter. She’s three. I’ll stop before the movie comes on.” And they’d smiled at each other, he’d quit, they’d all enjoy the film and we’d be bitching at each other over something else.

Aye, that’s how civilized people would act; this was in Florida.

[carnivorousplant]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Aye, that’s how civilized people would act; this was in Florida.

Ah.

Never been there, all I know about it is from John D. MacDonald novels, and that they wore funny looking uniforms in the Civil War.

[TokyoBayer]

@bup

Everyone is ignoring that these disparate observations came from two different people.

No, I think that the second comment especially reflects what a lot of conservatives believe. That the world is getting more “evil.” It’s ironic that the world is getting more evil because of “good Christians.”

[Siam_Sam]

I would honestly expect no less.

[Cartooniverse]

@aceplace57

Keeping this guy in jail will be expensive. I’m pretty sure he’ll have to be kept in protective custody. Ex cops don’t last long in lockup. If his health deteriorates then he’ll be in the medical ward.

He still needs to be prosecuted. But keeping him in jail or prison will get expensive. Medical care for elderly prisoners is becoming a big problem in all the prisons.

I believe the applicable phrase is " tough shit ".

[Dewey_Finn]

Well, if we’re not filling up our prisons with people convicted of relatively minor drug charges, or sentenced to life in prison due to three-strikes laws, there will be room for people who actually committed homicide, as did the retired cop in this case.

[ElvisL1ves]

“An armed society is a polite society.” :rolleyes:

[Siam_Sam]

@ElvisL1ves

“An armed society is a polite society.” :rolleyes:

Mexico City, 1987. I saw people driving like maniacs but heard very few horns honking. A local told me it was because all the drivers were armed.

[Jack_Batty]

That’s not politeness; that’s white-knuckle fear (a common trait amongst gun-nuts, it seems).

[Charlie_Wayne]

@Cartooniverse

Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

Consider that doing some crimes is more avoidable than others.

This crime was extremely avoidable. Hugely avoidable. It was just as avoidable as they come.

Compare it with the crime when someone accosts you on the street and waves a knife in your face and demands your wallet. That crime is not so easy to just “walk away from”. Although it is pretty easy. Just give the thief your wallet and see what happens.

If he takes your wallet and runs away, you have avoided the crime.

It is a crime to shoot him if he’s just waving a knife at you. If he’s pointing a gun at you then it may not be considered a crime.

Another case that is very hard to avoid is when someone grabs you and puts you in a headlock and demands your wallet. In this case it is much harder to just walk away. I don’t know the answer to this one.

But this retired cop could have easily walked away. He deserves to have the book thrown at him. He deserves to be placed **under **the freaking jail and he deserves to have the key thrown away. I don’t think anyone in this thread has stated an opinion contrary to that.

My guess is that he thought about his wife and figured his pride would be wounded if he didn’t do something. He must have presented himself to his wife as the big tough macho ex-cop and he would have found it pretty humiliating to allow the texting guy to tell him off. **But **… (I think you all know what comes next and it’s a pretty big huge but.).

[Charlie_Wayne]

@aceplace57

Keeping this guy in jail will be expensive. I’m pretty sure he’ll have to be kept in protective custody. Ex cops don’t last long in lockup. If his health deteriorates then he’ll be in the medical ward.

He still needs to be prosecuted. But keeping him in jail or prison will get expensive. Medical care for elderly prisoners is becoming a big problem in all the prisons.

I think many people who have kept up with the phoney “war on drugs” know that the prison industry and the “drug enforcement industry” are huge forces for building more prisons and locking up more people (usually Black, Brown and Spanish (i.e. Latinos and Chicanos) people).

Until we break these current insane trends, it is my opinion that the cost of caring for these elderly prisoners will be passed onto the taxpayers until that cost breaks the back of the taxpayers.

It’s no wonder that we’re seeing so many examples of governments wanting to legalize drugs. They have to stop this insane imprisoning minorities with mandatory sentences. If they don’t stop it, they will go broke paying for it.

Please Note: The above opinion is just my opinion and I know many people will disagree with it. I wish I could post a link to a wonderful documentary I saw about these trends - namely: war on drugs, mandatory minimum sentences and how locking up so many Blacks, Browns and Spanish (i.e. Latinos and Chicanos) for insane lengths of prison sentences is driving our governments broke at an ever increasing acceleration. It was largely about a former DEA agent who was a local Texas cop and was recruited to join the DEA because he had more drug smuggling arrests than all the DEA agents in the whole state of Texas.

Maybe someone here knows that documentary and can post a link to it?

[Punoqllads]

@Lazlo Hapsburg

It is a crime to shoot him if he’s just waving a knife at you.

This is not necessarily the case. A knife is a deadly weapon. If the person is in a position to use that knife, use of deadly force to prevent such can be considered justifiable homicide.

[rbroome]

@Loach

I’m a little confused about what you are asking. The reasonable person standard is a legal construct that comes out of common law. “Reasonably cautious and prudent person” is just another more specific way of saying “reasonable person.” It is not a higher standard. The legal “reasonable person” is reasonably cautious and reasonably prudent. Its how the hypothetically standard person in society would act. There is no bright line as to what the definition of reasonableness is legally.

Such a “person” is really an ideal, focusing on how a typical person, with ordinary prudence, would act in certain circumstances. The test as to whether a person has acted as a reasonable person is an objective one, and so it does not take into account the specific abilities of a defendant.

A phrase frequently used in tort and Criminal Law to denote a hypothetical person in society who exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct and who serves as a comparative standard for determining liability.

I hope that’s what you are asking.

Thanks! That is exactly what I was asking. The judge was describing the same requirement in two slightly different ways. That is what common sense would suggest and what I hoped to be the case. I appreciate the clarification.

[carnivorousplant]

We have a different problem in Arkansas.
A bill to get people out of prison and on parole resulted in the extreme case of a guy who should be doing 75 years murdering a young guy for his credit card PIN and dumping the body in the street.

[Punoqllads]

74 years, 355 days for murder. Ten days for littering.

[carnivorousplant]

@Punoqllads

74 years, 355 days for murder. Ten days for littering.

Tacky.

Link

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Lazlo Hapsburg

It is a crime to shoot him if he’s just waving a knife at you. If he’s pointing a gun at you then it may not be considered a crime.

Actually, in Florida it is not a crime to shoot someone if they are waving a knife at you. That’s what the SYG law is all about, in fact: that you do not have to retreat and that you may use deadly force if you think it is necessary to bring the situation to a close.

Here, check it out:
[

@Florida Statutes 776.013

(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

](Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine)

And hey, guess what I just found! Apparently some members of the Florida legislature are trying to expand the state’s SYG law, with the help of former NRA president Marion Hammer.
[

Gawker’s Adam Weinstein reported that S.B. 448, which would protect someone who fires warning shots or waves a weapon when they feel threatened, was written by Marion Hammer, a former NRA president.

The bill would amend the current law, which permits residents to use deadly force under certain circumstances, to allow the “threatened use of force.” Gun owners couldn’t be arrested for brandishing a gun or firing warning shots. The legislation also could lead to more permissive open-carry laws or lighter requirements for gun licensing.

If passed, S.B. 448 would apply “immunity provisions that relate to the use of force to the threatened use of force,” meaning that gun owners wouldn’t be subject to state “10-20-life” laws mandating an automatic 10-year sentence for anyone convicted of flashing or using a gun in the commission of a felony.

The “10-20-life” law was passed in 1999. Ironically, Gawker noted, the NRA supported that bill at the time.

](The NRA Is Directly Behind A Bill Loosening Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' Law | HuffPost Latest News)
Doesn’t that sound like a swell idea? :dubious: