'Focus': A sci-fi oriented debate

This thread is at least based on a sci-fi book, but it’s more about a particular concept within it and the consequences and morality thereof, so I didn’t really feel it was appropriate for cafe society. If a mod disagrees with me, then I apologise - please move it.

In Vernor Vinge’s novel “A Deepness in the Sky” there is a technology called focus. This effectively induces a form of controlled monomania - it focuses a person on a particular subject to such a degree that they care about nothing else. A focused physicist will produce amazing work because they will devote all their time to it without tiring, and will have no distractions. Through sheer persistence and attention to details they will see things that others won’t, as well as having more general knowledge of their subject because they have the dedication to focus on it to the exclusion of all else. A focused security team can watch all the cameras and information indefinitely, catching things that other people wouldn’t. Focused programmers are capable of debugging and rewriting code to an extent unmanagable by normal humans (in the book this is particularily valuable as the software environment they used is based on thousands of years of addition to older systems). Another use for focused individuals was that they provided a level between automation and the user - you would give instructions to the Focused and they then performed the task. A good example of something where this would be useful would be data retrieval. e.g. For a current example, if you wanted to research something obscure on the internet, Focused could work with the existing search engines and provide another level between you and the computer with much more flexibility and discrimination, but with an attention to detail and a persistence no normal person could manage.

The point is that Focussed individuals combine the level of dedication that a computer has, with the level of flexibility of a human. It allows a level of achievement that is simply impossible to reach without something like this. Hypothetically I suppose you could create an AI which performed a similar function, but it would effectively amount to the same thing.

The process itself is of course disgusting - it amounts to little more than a form of high tech slavery. The part where it becomes different from slavery is that it achieves effects that could not be possible without it. So in some sense it is better than slavery, which is in the end achieves little more than saving money by not paying labourers to work for the task. On the other hand it is also worse than slavery, as it denies the victims even their freedom of thought.

Say we had focus now… Could you justify using it? Focusing a team of economists, etc. and you could make plans which could rejuvenate the problems on an entire nation. Focusing teams of engineers and physicists could give new advanced technologies - clean, cheap power sources, cheap methods of desalinisation, and countless other things. You would be sacrificing a few hundred, but benefiting the entire planet.

I imagine you could probably even get (a limited number of) volunteers for it, but that is somewhat incidental to the issue I’m trying to discuss. Is it justifiable to sacrifice a relatively small number of - unwilling - people to benefit the entire race? If, by exploiting a few, you can achieve for everyone else (not just yourself) things unimaginably greater than what you could otherwise achieve?

With the specific example of focus, perhaps you could have a system of specialised universities - training people for free, giving great benefits to those who graduate, but at the end of the program taking a small (randomly selected) percentage of the people and focusing them, say 1%; If all the students who went into these programs were fully aware of the risks, would it be justifiable? Would many take it? (Incidentally this solution is somewhat similar to how it was handled in the book, except that all university graduates were subjected to such a lottery).

Myself, I don’t know what I would choose for the use of focus. On the one hand, the idea apalls me. On the other, the promise of the technology seems too high to dare pass up. It’s a difficult decision to make.

It seems to me it’s not only a difficult decision to make, but one that will have to be made. Perhaps not soon, but also not too far away. If nothing else, if we manage to create artificial intelligences will the situation not closely parallel this one - if we are able to create AI, would the temptation to create AI like the focused be too great to pass up? If you can dedicate all that thinking power to one task, imagine what you can achieve. If not AI, then given a reasonable advance in neurosurgery and cybernetics you could probably achieve something approaching focus, maybe even by simple stimulation of pain/pleasure centers - if you can make a person develop the right associations you can make them desire to do nothing else but work. Once you’ve done that you can used your new ‘focused’ to refine the technique further and further.

For now, I’m glad the decision only exists as a hypothetical. Even beyond the technology itself, the possibilities of it’s uses are frightening, and even if it could be used responsably, I very much doubt it would be…

Is it reversible? Are the long-term effects negligible? If so, then make it voluntary. I know many people in my line of work who would volunteer for it. In a sense, we’re already somewhat monomaniacal, typical of scientists.

I’d say that if you called for volunteers you’d get more people than you expect. Some people, especially in the various sciences, might jump at such a chance. If they volunteered, then I don’t see a problem with it. Was the process reversable? That would be a key to determining if it was ethical or not I’d think…especially if you used a lottery system instead of volunteers. Personally, I doubt whether, even if available, such a system would ever be used with the drawbacks you point out. They would probably try and refine it so that it was more selective (maybe you could, thru a mental ‘switch’ turn the effect off and on while you were working).

-XT

If it isn’t reverisible just put a focused team on the task of reversing the process.

If such a thing existed, governments would be nearly obliged to make use of it for their own nations’ survival. Instead of a missile gap, you would have a “brain gap.” It would be no different than military service, really–some people are going to die (become Focused) for the greater good of the nation.

Sickening, but necessary, just like war. Perhaps we would have international treaties outlawing such practices, on the grounds it is so inhumane. After that, substantial breakthroughs in any field would likely be highly scrutinized to make sure that no Focusing was involved–and penalties would presumably have to be severe. But really, without a significant outcry, I can’t see the military voluntarily forgoing such a practice.

Now, if you could turn Focus OFF–either on a periodic basis, or after a number of years of service (say a 20-year career in the Focused Services), then it’s a different story. Then you could more easily get volunteers, as financial rewards could presumably be made high enough at the end, and the glory of stunning breakthroughs would still rest on those individuals’ shoulders after they retired.

Another option (since Focus is essentially a death sentence): Only use criminals scheduled for capital punishment (or those who have been given life imprisonment who volunteer for Focusing). Then you could turn their brains to good use.

There was an article in the NYT Sunday Mag a few weeks ago about a researcher (don’t remember his name or what he calls his technology) which is very similar to “Focus”. The researcher is able to stimulate the brain (EM, I believe) to induce savant like abilities in regular folks.

Anyway, if it’s voluntary, I say go for it. If not, then it’s morally wrong.

I’m with John Mace. No problem if it’s voluntary. If not, then it’s simply slavery.

Julie

Brilliant solution! Ethical conundrum solved (once that team is successful … until then, the first generation of Focused labor on without hope of returning to normal humaity).

Sounds sort of like being a Mentat. More details would help determine whether or not it’s ethical.

::: contemplates siccing the Frenkish Orc on kitarat ::: :wink:

In the book, reversal was possible but exceedingly difficult. But, and here’s the kicker, the Focused didn’t want to be deFocused – it was a part of their monomania that they wanted to continue doing the work they were Focused on. (Compare “deprogramming” programs today.)

Focus, if it were voluntary, would differ ethically very little from the right of people to choose to perform some sort of self-sacrifice for the good of the community. The deFocus choice, and whether it truly is one made “with free will,” is the sticky point for me.

I also believe the question of reversibility (or, conversely, permanence) is key. If it’s something that is done to somebody forever, well, that’s kind of oogy. But if it’s something that you can turn on and turn off, then it becomes highly desirable. Hell, I’d use it myself whenever it’s time to clean the house, so I wouldn’t get distracted finding this old National Geographic I hadn’t read, and here’s a yellow sticky with somebody’s phone number on it, why did I write that down again? oh, and here’s this DVD I’ve been looking for, I promised to look something up in the special features for a Dope thread, and now it’s four hours later and the house still isn’t clean…

In the book it was reversible but, as well as being difficult, reversing it potentially caused brain damage. In particular there was a good chance that it would irreparably damage the areas of memory relevant to the subject of focus. Also there were dangers associated with actually being focused which, if they manifested, could cause similar problems (I think it happened when the Focused grew highly emotional about something, and as a consequence it could spread across groups). Also, as Polycarp said - the Focused didn’t want to be defocused, and in a lot of cases where you defocused them and they retained their skills they still retained a pretty high degree of obsession.

toadspittle: Yeah, I thought of the option of only using focus on criminals. The problem with the technology as presented was that it worked by exagerating existing areas of specialty or interest, so you had to work with what was already there.

I think the general idea is more interesting that the specific details of how it works in the book. If it’s reversible the problem gets far less tricky, as you can probably get people to volunteer (something which Vinge downplayed too much in the book I think), or you could for example institute some sort of limited period conscription - serve your country for 5 years as a focused. Compensation for focused after they’ve been defocused would also be a good way to go about it.

So let’s consider the other side: What if it’s not reversible? What if the process involves, for example, actually destroying a particular area of the brain? Or completely destroying the personality of the person involved? Can it still be justified? You might still get volunteers, but it becomes increasingly less likely. Further, those that volunteer would probably be those least useful as focused.

I can’t say that forcing something like that on a person would be anything less than evil, but I suspect I wouldn’t stand against it if it were used sparingly, and for projects in the public domain. Focused working for private companies would seem to be going too far, although I can’t quite place the distinction. Probably because it’s getting even closer to generally allowing the idea of slavery…

As toadspittle says, it would create something of an arms race - even if it’s use was repulsive, the fact that others might use it would probably force everyone to do so, treaties or no treaties.

Some programmers nowdays are so focused and specialized that they are close to this you describe. Specialists in various areas too. I have met people who know an awful lot about a specific thing that might be deemed “useless” but they like it.

So no I wouldnt want to be a focused nor see anyone be turned into one.