Food stamps; do you think one's purchases/taxes should be looked into?

Actually, that is not quite correct. You can buy certain types of prepared foods- like pizza that is pre-made but not yet cooked.

To respond to the OP, overall rates of food stamp fraud are incredibly low. For instance, in the State of Wisconsin, recently had a huge food stamp system audit. Of the over 800,000 people receiving food stamps, they identified about 2,000 people that were abusing or inappropriately receiving benefits. So, using that audit, fraud was detected in 0.25% of cases. Cutting down on government waste and fraud is important, but 1/4 of 1% is not a level of fraud that I am overly concerned about.

The Denver Post had an article a few years back about fraud if you guys were wondering. JeffCo claims that fraudsters owe them $1M for the year 2008.

That’s a lot of money.

No I am not going on about how I am entitled to something. I am going on about how you feel poor people don’t deserve to have nice things because you “pay” for their food.

You have some idea in your head about how poor people should look and act and if they do not meet this standard than they don’t ‘deserve’ your hand-out. Which makes you a miserly and mean-spirited person.

P.S., I am not poor. I used to be poor 25 years ago. But with the assistance of my fellow Americans, my children and I didn’t starve to death. We are now firmly middle-class with a house in the suburbs, college educations and a new car.

I honestly believe if the tax-payers are the ones paying for peoples’ EBT/food stamps, then yes we have a right to be concerned with what people buy. It’d be like giving someone money on their birthday for them to go and blow it on alcohol rather than something of value.

Then you are not the type of welfare recipient I am referring to in my post. It’s a temporary hand-up, not a permanent hand-out. Don’t you see a problem with people who quit their job so as to collect unemployment without having to work, and who remain on welfare for decades?

You should get a life.

No really, spend a bit of time worrying about your own shit, and a bit less time worry about the 2 cents a month your taxes contribute to WIC.

If there is no way of knowing how bad the problem is, how is it possible to be sure it never, EVER happens?

There is no way to eliminate 100% of abuse without seriously damaging the program and the assistance it provides to millions of people, Sometimes the cure is worse than the problem.

You don’t know what you are talking about. The welfare reforms under Clinton cut eligibility to two years in a row and five lifetime. Ya cheapo.

Now, with the new EBT cards, that’s true. However, small items like gum and “penny candy” (at least 20+ years ago, and in Alaska, so of course I can’t speak for what happens currently), were allowed to be purchased with foodstamps, and change was given back. Which basically allowed a person to make lots of small purchases and use the cash for said cigarettes and so on. Foodstamps came in regular denominations, just like folding money. IIRC, $1, $5, $10, and $20 (or maybe $25) foodstamp “bills”. Therefore, you could purchase a candy bar for 90 cents and pay with a $5 foodstamp, and if there weren’t enough $1 foodstamps in the cashiers’ drawers (a common occurrence) you could get up to $4.10 in actual money for change.

Perfectly “legal” even if morally and ethically wrong. But a lot of people would use it to get cigarettes or other luxury items. Most of the time they’d do it during the same exact transaction. I lived in an area that was, at the time, extremely depressed economically (they’ve since recovered nicely). So there were a lot of people in the system and I saw this happen a lot.

It was maddening. I’m thinking “GREAT! these people don’t trust me, and drop in any old time to 'make sure I’m really as poor as I say I am, and here YOU are abusing the system, no WONDER they treat us all like crap”.

Then there’s my cousin who purposely had two children (yup, she out and out proudly proclaimed that was her intent), and went on welfare until the youngest was 18 (at which time, as another doper points out, she had to go off the system). As long as there are kids involved, as recently as my cousin’s youngest reached 18, which was five or six years ago, a person can stay in the system. She treated it as if it were a viable career/lifestyle choice.

It’s perfectly reasonable for people to get frustrated with the system, and have a lot of misconceptions about it for just these reasons. Not to mention, for people to have a tendency to lump “welfare” in with all of those who act this way while on the system. It DOES give it a bad name, and it IS aggravating to those of us who actually work, or act “right” while using welfare (or whatever they’re calling it these days) for its intended purpose.

This is just one of those things that has a lot of grey areas, and the government and its rapidly expanding “share the wealth” mentality isn’t helping matters. I don’t see things have gotten any better since Bill Clinton’s days. You see just as much fraud about as back then. Just recently there was some big brouhaha about people scamming and selling EBT cards here in my state. Apparently anyone can use anyone else’s cards, so supposed “foodstamps” can, in a roundabout way be used to buy about anything a person wants to, once they sell them for cash.

:confused: How do you sell a SNAP card? Do you get a percentage of what will come to your account over the life of your benefits, or do you just get enough meth to last a day?

Close, it’s everyone in the food chain from top to bottom.
Does SNAP pay retail or wholesale prices an grocery stores? The poor benefit, but the stores profit.
Does SNAP pay for questionable food items? The poor sorta benefit, but Frito-Lay, Nabisco, etc, profit.

It isn’t a coincidence that SNAP is administered by the Food and Nutrition Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. In the end SNAP is a massive giveaway to agribusiness who’d be just as happy to send their excess production to landfills as they would be to have it purchased by the lucky ducky poor.

CMC fnord!

Sorry, I wondered if my “no ones eating out on food stamps” was clear enough. Yes, frozen TV dinners are okay to buy with food stamps. But no one is eating at Spaggio’s, or even Pizza Hut.

WIC I have absolutely no gripes with. It is an excellent program and only allows the purchase of nutritious items that are necessities.

This is a terrible analogy for what you’re trying to say, honestly. If you give someone a gift, it’s not your place to dictate what they do with it. If said “gift” has strings attached, then it’s not really a gift.

That said, SNAP isn’t a gift. Which is why there ARE strings attached in how you can use it.

Argh. You know that the unemployment office checks your last place of employment to find out why you’re no longer employed, don’t you? If there’s a dispute/discrepancy between what you say, and what your former boss says, you gotta sit in on a phone hearing (and possibly a much lengthier appeals process, too). There are very limited circumstances in which you can quit and still qualify for UI. (Unreasonable working conditions, a huge salary cut, or things of that nature. Quitting because you wanna sit on your ass and collect a check doesn’t qualify.)

And ONLY prepackaged food. (If you make a salad or plate of chinese food, you pay cash)

A year or so ago, I was waiting in line to get a few things at a local supermarket, when I noticed the young woman in front of me’s purchases.

She had a case of Guinness (one of the most expensive beers sold in the grocery stores here in Utah) a few packs of American Spirit cigarettes (also a premium priced brand) and some other food items that caught my eye.

One was a quart of salsa that is made fresh by one of Salt Lake’s local gourmet Mexican restaurants, and sold in the refrigerated section of select supermarkets; It’s damn tasty stuff, but it costs around $10 per container, easily 3x more expensive than a jar of Old El Paso or La Victoria, which is why I can’t ever justify buying some for myself.

She also had a quart of orange juice, but of course not your Florida’s Natural or Tropicana, but instead the freshly squeezed stuff that is also over 3x more expensive than the others. There were some other items as well, mostly natural and organic, and all considerably more expensive than the average brands on the shelf. (I myself don’t eat meat, and so I am quite familiar with the price differences of so-called “Specialty Foods”). Clearly this lovely young woman (probably 25 years old or so) was someone of exacting tastes and a discriminating palate.

Of course, you all know where this is going, when the stuff was all rung up, she pulled out an EBT card, and naturally she didn’t bat an eye when the cashier told her she had to pay for the beer and cigs separately from the food. She peeled a few twenties out of her wallet and was on her merry way.

I don’t know what the moral to this rather pointless story is (I have forgotten some of the details with time) but I do remember when I mentioned this in a similar thread, the consensus seemed to be that no one should have any limitations on what products that it’s kosher to use food stamp assistance on, and if a EBT benefit recipient wants to use their allotted funds to buy a $200 bottle of Tuscan olive oil or a few ounces of Beluga caviar, it’s no one else’s Goddam business but their own.

The ones that are actually working (but not reporting the income), and/or who have people living with them that are paying the bills and they’re not reporting the income or help as they’re supposed to be doing, that’s who. Like my cousin. She was on welfare for 20 some odd years, but whatever welfare didn’t pay for, her parents did, all under the table of course, not reported. So it’s not as if she had to actually try to survive on welfare alone. In her case, it wasn’t pearls or furs, but horse breeding. Yup, her parents subsidized what welfare didn’t so that she could basically have her own horse-breeding farm. And she sold the foals under her parents’ name, so that none of that income was reported. Not that she made very much, mostly it was just her way of doing what she wanted, when she wanted and not having to pay for any of it.

Something none of them would have been able to do had her food, shelter and other living expenses not been paid for by the taxpayer.

That’s just one of the ways to defraud. And one of the reasons that (lo these many moons ago) I got 19 katrillion more “home inspections” than the average welfare recipient. I don’t know what made my caseworkers suspicious, but for some weird reason they got it in their wee little government worker minds that I was lying, and in the interest of trying to “catch a welfare defrauder” I somehow got in their sights.

I lived in a tiny trailer with a wood stove. So when they came for their first “inspection” I could hear one of them whisper to the other “oh, there IS a wood stove”. No morons, I was lying about that because it’s so grand and wonderfully convenient to try and keep warm using one…:rolleyes:

I was constantly getting checkup calls to make sure that what I’d reported that week was true, and the tone and attitude was always one of disbelief. I don’t have a clue why, maybe they’re always like that to everyone, I don’t know, but based on what some of my neighbors told me, no, they didn’t treat people like that usually.

Other weird little things kept happening too. Such as, welfare recipients were supposed to randomly get “drawn” for certain types of “job training” ( a real joke those were, basically 2-4 hour long “interview tips” like don’t chew gum when you go to an interview…or “here’s how you turn on a computer”, though I was already extremely computer literate.), and typically a person’s name might come up once a year, if that. Mine came up every other month, sometimes two or three months in a row.

It was very frustrating, but I DO understand why it was happening, even if I also knew that it was very stupid of them to have chosen me to target. They have a lot of fraud, so they have to do their best to try and track it down. There aren’t enough of them to go around or actually do a good job finding those who are defrauding the system though, so the make halfhearted efforts in the name of “eyewash”. Sort of how the government makes it *look *as if we’re doing something to combat terrorism by foisting the TSA on us.

A lot of people do play by the rules, but a lot DON’T and it’s quite understandable that “welfare” gets judged on those that don’t. So, some defraud and screw the system with impunity, while those who are working (and their fellow welfare recipients for that matter) pay for them to do nothing. Of course it gets a bad name.
And of course it starts feeling like “you’re taking money from MY paycheck, and food from MY mouth, that I legitimately earned, so you can sit on your ass and eat bon-bons and lobster”. For a lot of them, that’s absolutely what’s happening.

If this happened within the last 20 years, then she may have been gaming the state ‘welfare’. Federal welfare lasts 2 years in a row.

The Federal government provides assistance through TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families). TANF is a grant given to each state to run their own welfare program. To help overcome the former problem of unemployment due to reliance on the welfare system, the TANF grant requires that all recipients of welfare aid must find work within two years of receiving aid, including single parents who are required to work at least 30 hours per week opposed to 35 or 55 required by two parent families. Failure to comply with work requirements could result in loss of benefits.

This story is an example of what I am referring to. As I said before I am not criticizing everyone on welfare, it’s specific instances like the one you described that make me feel that there needs to be some reform.

You can buy food for people and get cash or give your SNAP card to someone else.

It happens.

A student of mine - the chronically homeless one - complains because her mom and her mom’s roommate commit welfare fraud up the 'zoo.

I just thought of this - my dad’s mistress has a Lexus and he has a Lexus AND a Mercedes and she’s on Medicaid. They live in California. He’s a conservative but had no problems getting gubmint freebies when he lived in a place where it was easy.

She has a Gucci diaper bag, btw.

The best way is the stitching. Uneven, poor, fake? The real Coach or Tous bag has real stitching, often double-stitched, even, quality. Logo stitching often goes through to the other side of the surface.

You have to know how the real bag looks. A Tous bag has a particular design, perhaps a little hanging thing on a particular buckle, that probably won’t be there in the fake version. The real designer bag has a zillion different little parts of its design, all planned and thought out. You need to know what the real deal looks like in detail to be able to spot the fake.

Check the lining. Fake bags don’t often spend the money to duplicate something that won’t be seen from the outside.

Miu Miu, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and others actually have serial numbers for their bags. The lack of the serial number is a great way to confirm the fake.