BTW, not to support drachillix or anything, but the post office does sell money orders and they do take debit cards for them.
But there are plenty of legitimate needs to use cash for.
You know, I wouldn’t recommend that anyone eat anything that I wouldn’t eat myself. Why are you turning your nose up at some mighty tasty food? (Or, at risk of proving Brutus correct about my nonexistent Bolshevist tendencies, why are you turning your nose up at peasants?)
I cook all of the things I have mentioned above, by choice. Rice and beans can be seasoned about a zillion different ways, in just about every cuisine on the globe (except maybe Inuit). Same goes for chicken. What do you have against chicken? Or vegetables? Hell, some of my favorite foods are things that my great-grandmother used to cook out of necessity; borsch, stuffed cabbage, noodle kugel, beef brisket for special occasions…things to stretch a dollar don’t have to taste repulsive. I cook them myself when I have the time, and I enjoy every bite.
I have mentioned several times in this thread that I don’t begrudge food stamp recipients, or anyone else, the occasional steak or slice of pie. Why should I? The issue arises when crap becomes the bulk of someone’s diet, but I feel the same way when non-food stamp recipients eat primarily crap. If you want to ruin your heart and kidneys and blood sugar equilibrium, then go right ahead, but not on my dime. You have the right to ruin yoiur health on your own dime, and I have the right to think you’re stupid for doing so.
It’s great that you have the luxury to cook your own meals using healthy ingredients. Most of us can do that.
One part of poverty is inadequate housing. Not everyone has the facilities to cook for themselves. I’ve lived in apartments that have had either no working refrigerator or no working stove, therefore cooking for myself was not an option.
There are also sanitation issues. Do you want to eat food stored in places where there is vermin running rampant? I sure don’t. (I am not suggesting that poverty=vermin, but it can be a problem.) Foods like rice and beans attract mice, who chew through the bags, nibble at the food, and leave feces and urine in food storage areas. And, of course, there are roaches and other bugs that cause similar problems.
There are also group housing situations which do not allow heat-generating appliances at all. Any food has to be cold or dry.
I’m not suggesting that one can’t eat a healthy diet if one can’t cook. What I am saying is that it’s not as simple as telling someone to cook when they can’t.
Robin
A point which I already made. I’m not blaming you, Robin (because clearly this point needed to be made again!) but I am frustrated that some of the people in this thread are ignoring issues which have been brought up in earlier pages.
I know it sucks to read four pages of posts, but I 'll wager some of these threads wouldn’t GET so long if people would read them in their entirety and didn’t blindly go over the same ground.
MsRobyn, I know that with poverty frequently come barriers to eating healthy food. I am merely suggesting that there are a lot of people who can do a lot better in that department than they currently are. What percentage of food stamp recipients live in places with no refrigerator and/or cooking facilities? Even if it’s a very significant number (say 20-30%, which I doubt), that still leaves an awful lot of people who do have the opportunity to eat a balanced diet. Some of those aren’t doing so. And some of the ones aren’t doing so because they don’t have a complete view of the alternatives. My comments are aimed primarily at that last group of people.
(And yes, I’ve lived in some pretty darn substandard housing myself. In fact, 2 weeks ago I just moved out of a place that had a serious cockroach problem. Maybe we should have a discussion about landlord/tenant issues involved in forcing building owners to rid housing of insects and vermin, but that’s a whole other thread.)
FWIW here in WV you CAN buy bottled water with food stamps.
I know this because I have 2 friends on the system. She buys plain bottled water every now and then and he buys Propel fitness water (he has almost totally given up soda and finds this to be a good substitute).
First off, apologies if I seem like I’ve been beating a dead horse. I know the housing issue has been raised; I just thought it bore raising again.
For all the talk of “they could be eating a healthier diet” in this thread, I haven’t really seen any discussion on how people could be educated on this issue. Simply telling people to “eat better” really doesn’t work, especially when they’ve been raised on a high-fat, high-starch diet. (When I lived in Texas, I knew a lot of Hispanic families on food stamps whose diet consisted mainly of hamburger, cheese, tortillas made with lard, beans made with lard, and white rice.)
Those with any kind of institutional-eating experience (e.g. military, prison, etc.) know that the vast majority of what is served consists of starch, cheaper cuts of meat, and vegetables seasoned with bacon fat. Why? Because this is a cheap way to feed a lot of people. Families on food stamps have to take that cheap-and-plentiful mentality, especially when you consider that most food stamp recipients get less than one dollar per person per meal. When you’re looking at that kind of budget, you go with what fills you up and keeps you that way.
I know that WIC offers access to nutritionists as part of their program; perhaps the USDA could do the same for food-stamp families? Perhaps develop sample shopping lists and food budgets? Or, tie an increase in benefits to those who buy healthier foods?
Robin
Several random points:
From a lot of the testimonials from people who were poor, but who’s parents (or they themselves) didn’t accept assistance, I’m sorry you had a rough time. But whether it was pride or lack of knowledge, it seems rather short-sighted that you/they didn’t accept government assistance. That’s what it’s there for! It’s to help people. Poor people shouldn’t have to live at a barely subsistence level. The money saved by using few food stamps could help you buy a nice interview outfit, to make your job prospects that much better. Or allow someone to buy a toy for their child’s birthday. Some people’s attitudes almost seem like jealousy. “I didn’t get to take advantage (as in use, not abuse) of government programs when I was on hard times, so no one else should, either.” Looking back over this thread, I see that you with the face said many things like this back on page 3. If I ever had such a fixed income, you can me damn sure I would try to find every available resource. I see it as an investment, just as my goverment-subsidized school loans helped me go to school (and yes, I worked all 5 years).
I know some people are going to complain about paying for other’s people’s lifestyle choices. But you do that all the time. Take health insurance, even private insurance. Every time you send your check in to the company, you’re helping pay for someone else’s bills. That’s what shared risk is all about. Most people end up paying more money to insurance companies then they get back out, but you’re helping prevent other people from going bankrupt because of some drastic illness or injury.
By no means do I wish to defend all of the gunk that’s in our foods, but in some situations (poor storage conditions, buying in bulk) processed foods are best. The preservatives help prevent spoilage, and if you’re doing your purchasing to last the whole month, fresh fruits and vegetables will only last the first week or so. And frankly, I can see buying nutrient-dense foods just to get the minimum of caloric value.
Malt has other uses. When I worked at a bagel store, we added malt syrup to the water the bagels were boiled in to give them a crust. this site says “Barley malt is by far the cheapest natural sweetener and has a rich, roasted taste that is not overpowering.” According to the USDA malt has quite a few trace nutrients. And it is buy no means a scientific citation, but I remember that in “Slaugherhouse Five,” the POWs were put to work in a malt factory, and would frequently spoon the malt syrup, as it greatly supplemented their diets. So malt can have nutritional uses. Now personally, I don’t think someone on food stamps should buy it for the purposes of home brewing. But the answer to that is not to put malt syrup on the forbidden list, but the person with the food stamps to be ethical.
To wrap up, shit happens. I’d rather have the programs, even if they are sometimes abused, then to take food away from the poor. Yeah, it would be great if they were abused less. But I’m sure there are ways to solve the problem that don’t involve the draconian measures some people here are proposing.
I oppose, on principle, placing restrictions on the use of food stamps aside from the general “use them for food” one. To do more implies that self-determination and personal sovreignty is linked to financial status. I believe these rights to be inalienable, even those without money still have these. You want to outlaw big macs? Go ahead, as long as it applies to everyone. I actually think that kind of change would be good. I just don’t agree with the unstated premise of this arguement that financial support equates to decision-making when the recepient of such support is a living, breathing, adult, mentally competent human being. I see no reason why a person who is unable to support themselves financially accepting aid should require them to give up their right to determine their own diet. Personal freedom is a right. Throwing on an effective qualifier to the effect of “as long as you can afford it” is anathema to me.
Enjoy,
Steven
Geez, it took a long time to read through this thread. I few thoughts from me…MsRobyn, simply put your dry goods in the freezer to keep the weevils out (I hate those damn things)…in Alberta, there are no food stamps, but welfare abuse is rampant…I don’t believe one needs to be a genius to realize that root veggies, generic brands, bulk bins, and cooking from scratch is healthier, tasier, and cheaper…I have cooked things from scratch over a fire while camping…I am presently cooking a salmon casserole I made from scratch complete with noodles (generic), canned salmon (on sale), fresh broccoli ,cauliflour, and onion…it took me 10 minutes to whip up and put in the oven, cost me about $1.50 to make, and will last my son and I for dinners and lunches for three days…boy am I hungry…no we don’t have much money…just because folks are on these food stamps doesn’t mean they should be ignorant…go to the library and get some recipes, folks…stop buying chips and prepackaged crap and pop…that is all from me…gonna have my supper.
The folks getting food stamps don’t have a lot of disposable income, right? So, buying non-food items that are also household necessities, soap, toothpaste and the like, could certainly encourage folks to budget their food stamps better to include those things.
Alas, I’m aware of all the logistical reasons that will never happen, but when I was young and broke and my friends and I used food stamps, that always seemed like the coolest plan.
FWIW, since it seems like this has become an either/or opinion poll on if it’s less expensive to buy whole foods and cook nutrionally, count me in the camp that says it’s cheaper to eat crap. It’s by no means healthier, but it’s cheaper. Certainly takes less time, and if you picture that working parent with the longer hours at the lower-wage job and the kids with the homework to be helped with and the housework and all that, time is just another commodity that poorer people don’t enjoy an excess of.
Whats wrong with buying junk food if you are on a budget? Foods like soda or potato chips are high in calories and low in price. I recently read somewhere that the only liquid that has more calories per dollar than soda is vegetable oil.
If people bought fruit & vegetables, they would end up spending 2x as much on groceries as there are no calories in these things.
nitroglycerine, i have a question for you. This isn’t an attack or anything, i’m just wondering.
If you & your wife make a combined income of $14.75 an hour ($590 a week pre-tax), you live in rural PA where i’m sure rent is low, have virtually no luxuries and don’t have a car, then what are your major expenses?
My point was that not everyone who receives food stamps has adequate housing. In some of these houses, weevils would be the least of your problem. Your comment also assumes that there is a freezer in the house, which is not always the case.
Robin
I don’t live in RURAL PA. (I’ve never tipped a cow or had sex with a family member 
OK, thats a bit too broad of a generalization of rural PA, but come on…have you people ever been to some of those towns around Blue Knob ski resort? Its 100% Deliverence country baby!)…I live in Altoona which isn’t exactly Los Angeles or nuthin’ but still…
Lets see…expenses? Rent, Gas, electric, water, trash and phone. Hmmm…Diapers, baby wipes, baby clothes detergent, soap, shampoo, razors, shaving cream. toilet paper, household cleaning stuff, dish liquid, laundry detergent, soap, various femminine hygene products that I really don’t wanna know about, the occasional bottle of asprin, cold medicine or whatever, bus fare, cab fare, the few times during the month that we need a babysitter, cat food, kitty litter, my three dollar a month subscription to Maximumrocknroll magazine (oops another luxury). And right now, I seem to be spending a small fortune trying to get rid of these ants that have invaded my home. Thats a few things right off the top of my head, but I’m sure the list could go on and I didn’t include health insurance for my wife and son in the list.
We could save the insurance costs for the boy, by just using the welfare insurance for him(he is eligible but my wife and I aren’t. I think I already said that I was uninsured, so I’m fucked if I get sick.) but the quality of care you get with the medical card just isn’t the same. Especially when it comes to dental care.
BTW…I want to apologize to anyone I offended with the remark about people with panic attacks collecting SSI. I’m sure it can be a horrible disorder when its real and not just an easy way to get out of things.
Jon
The insurance for your child-are you talking about Medicaid?
Or CHIPS?
I agree with StGermain here. Nitroglycerine chose to have a child when he was not financially able to support it. Therefore, because he chose to have a child, the taxpayers are forced to subsidize his family. Why do people choose to reproduce when they cannot afford to support the child? Why should we be forced to support the child? Reproduction is certainly a choice in this day and age. It’s as easy as popping a pill once a day or putting a condom on.
I have several good friends who ended up “accidentally” pregnant…none of the were married or had good jobs at the time. They decided to have the child and keep the child. Who do you think paid for their hospital bills and doctor bills? The taxpayers. Who do you think paid for the baby’s formula and food stamps, etc? The taxpayers. These friends of mine got pregnant because they were being irresponsible…I know for a fact that they weren’t using birth control. So, because they can’t figure out how to take a pill or use a condom, I, the taxpayer, has to support their irresponsibility and laziness? I went to college and worked my butt off, and and managed to NOT get pregnant, and have been a responsible working citizen taxpayer, and I can still barely support myself. It just pisses me off when people choose to start families when they are not able to support them, and I have to foot the bill, when I work hard and do the right thing, and can still barely make ends meet for myself.
I guess my question to Nitroglycerine would be, why did you start a family if you couldn’t afford it? Why should I have to chip in to pay for your choice to have a child? No one consulted me…IMO, I think there’s already enough hungry mouths to feed and not enough resources to feed them…
Look, I have been sexually active for 10 years, and on the pill for 10 years, and haven’t gotten pregnant. Seems pretty simple to me. The pill is about 99 percent effective. Those seem like pretty good odds to me. And if you use a condom too, the odds go up. Not to hard to figure out. I know way too many of my friends who got knocked up because they were too ignorant or lazy to use birth control properly. I think a good majority of the “accidental” pregnancies are no accident at all. Only about 1 in 100 of these pregnancies are truly accidental, if you look at the odds.
And, yes nitroglycerine, I knew from Day One that antibiotics reduce the effectiveness of the birth control pill. If you read the instructions that come with the pill, you would have known too. I can understand why people aren’t happy paying to feed your family because your wife didn’t read the instructions carefully enough.
Nitroglycerine, let this be a lesson to you: never reveal personal information about yourself on the SDMB. There are hordes of mean and nasty people hovering around ready to rip you apart for it.
Let me advise you not to respond for the purpose of correcting any “mistaken impressions” you may feel your critics have relating to your life history. It won’t help; they’ll still find ways to make you out to be an evil leech on the underbelly of society by making new erroneous assumptions that put you in the worst possible light. The only way to stop them is to reveal absolutely everything about your family history, which you probably do not want to do.
These people seem to get off on finding ways to put down others who have been less fortunate than they (of course, they believe that it wasn’t a matter of fortune, but we know better), and they don’t give up easily on their pet pastime.
Just chalk it up to experience and move on. (Or take it to the Pit. Your choice.)