In the 49er’s-Giants game yesterday, there were two penalties on the offense in a row near the end of the game. The first came on a touchdown, the second on the two-point conversion that followed. Both penalties were called after the whistle so did not affect the result of the play itself. They were both also offset by defensive penalties. My question is what would have happened if there had not been offsetting penalties. I believe that the penalty on the touchdown drive would have resulted in a 15-yard penalty on the subsequent kickoff, and I think that is also what the penalty is for an infraction after the play on a conversion. What penalty would the refs have assigned if the offense had received two 15-yard kickoff penalties? Penalties aren’t cumulative when they happen on the same play, but this would have been on two different plays. Enforcing only one of them would seem to give teams a free cheap shot if they’d already been penalized after the touchdown.
I’m pretty sure that the penalty for the play that resulted in the touchdown would have been assessed on the ensuing play (i.e. the point after or two point conversion attempt). I know when there’s a false start or offsides on a PAT, the penalty is instantly marked off before the play continues.
Okay, an actual cite. The digest version of the rule is not specific but it does show that penalties can be marked off on a point after try.
i am not an expert, but i believe radiowave has hit the mark.
the first penalty will be marked off as half the distance to the goal meaning the ball be on the 1 yard line instead of 2 for the extra point(s).
the second penalty will be assessed on the kickoff.
the only thing i want to mention is that it seems like the kicking team cannot score on that play, so marking off a lot of penalties is pointless. kicking team cannot advanced the ball even if they recover on-side kick. only when fumble recovery, can kicking team advance the ball.
Radiowave, I wasn’t able to open that link, and the quote is for a defensive penalty. Do you think the same would the same apply for an offensive penalty, i.e. pushed back before the conversion try?
I thought the announcers said after the post-TD penalty that the penalty would apply to the kickoff, but given Collinsworth’s incorrect rant on intential grounding I don’t have much faith in him.
If there had been a dead ball foul called against the team that scored, I believe it would have been enforced on the try. That’s the college rule I know. The NFL could be different. In college football, the try would have begun from the 18 yard line.
If there was a dead ball foul after the try, then it would have been enforced on the kickoff.
I wouldn’t be surprised though if the NFL gave the team that gave up the score the option of having the yardage tacked on at the kickoff or on the try. You would think that there would be times that a team would want the yardage to be added on at the try, especially if you know that the other team is going to go for 2.
nth says:
Is this correct? In the one NFL game I ever saw the Chicago Cardinals (yes, it was that long ago) kicked off to the Philadelphia Eagles. It looked like the ball was going out of bounds around the 15 and the Eagles players were watching it bounce when a Cardinal came along, grabbed it, and waltzed into the end zone. Touchdown Cardinals. If I had to put a date on this, it would have been 1948 or 49. So the rules could have changed, but in those days a kickoff was a free kick and anybody could field it and run once it had gone 10 yards downfield. Actually, in Canadian football, every kick can be fielded by a player who is onside. Namely the kicker and anyone who is onside (behind or alongside) the punter (or anyone rendered onside by being passed by the kcker).
I don’t know when the rule changed, but in American football, at all levels, the kicking team on a free kick can recover, but cannot advance a kick, unless it has been fumbled.
Another possibility would be that the officials blew the call. The NFL admitted that the officials screwed up the end of the Giants-49ers game.
The NFL now says that the 49ers should have been called for pass interference. That would have resulted in offsetting penalties since the Giants also had ineligible receivers downfield.
Some what off topic, but just this last season the punter for Stanford (Eric Johnson) punted a ball against Arizona State that traveled about 30 yards in the air and then bounced back a bit. The strange thing about this play was the fact that Johnson ended up downing the kick. Anyone else seen this happen before?