Reviving an old owlstretchingtime format;
Spurs v Woolwich Arsenal - will the authentic North London club finish above the New Pretenders this season?
Rafa Benitez - will he still be in gainful employment by Monday? Will the Chelsea players play to the best of their ability with him still in charge?
Two Welsh clubs likely to be in the Prem next season, should be fun…
Any other thoughts on soccer from all around the world (even Scottish Division Three)?
Bale is becoming a monster, a monster of monstrous proportions. I have taken to calling Spurs “Garetham Hotbales”.
That’s a blast from the past - footie discussion on here hasn’t been the same since the aformentioned owl, GorillaMan, and chowder stopped posting - with the greatest respect to present company, of course.
I take it this is a reference to the founding dates of both clubs, specifically to wind up Arsenal fans. I’m all for that! And it looks like this will now come true. While I’m normally all in favour of manager longevity (Fergie being the obvious example, if he had arrived at United in 2006 instead of 1986, it’s unlikely he would have survived four years with little success), I really think it may be time for Wenger to step down. I think he has run out of ideas, energy, and passion. A harsh assessment of one the Premier League’s most successful managers, but that’s how I see it and I’m not even an Arsenal fan. There doesn’t seem to be much terrace or press pressure against him, though - perhaps the fans recognise that he is hamstrung by lack of funds from the board?
So this turned out to be yes and no, in a way. If the players don’t continue to play to the best of their ability, that would be a very stupid thing to do in my opinion, but then footballers (with many exceptions, of course) are not known for their intelligence.
For whom? All the fans who will be mugged for nearly six quid every time they go to see an away match there, in the pissing rain? 
Bolding mine - don’t really follow Rangers any more, I assume they’re winning :).
As for the rest, it’s been a long time since there was a season where people think the title race is dead and buried by March. Personally, I’m not so over-confident but 12 points in 10 games is a large differential to overcome, and if anything I would say the gap is likely to increase rather than decrease - could be the biggest winning margin ever! Except of course Fergie is likely to start playing reserve teams once it’s mathematically in the bag, in preparation (we hope) for the latter stages of FA Cup and Champions League. This should cause the usual consternation amongst the relegation-threatened teams who do not get to face MUFC Reserves as they thrash about at the bottom. Hopefully this group will include QPR and we will never have to see that thug Joey Barton on MOTD again.
More seriously, I don’t think it’s necessarily an advantage to be playing the second-string of a big club - by the end of the season, these players are likely to be much fitter and better-motivated than the regulars, and may perform better overall as a result.
Spurs have to finish top 4 if they want to keep hold of Gareth Bale. He’ll want Champions League footie next season, without that he’ll be off to Real or similar. He’s a very good player but comparisons with C. Ronaldo are a bit premature!
If Arsenal finish fifth I think it could finally be enough for Wenger to walk away (probably with a gentle push); their fans deserve better than “nearly” every year.
Interesting that Chelsea is now a no-go club for top managers: the big boys are eyeing up the Man Utd job, and as Rafa’s shown it’s hard to move from one of the big clubs to another without pissing off them fans.
And this season could see the relegation of one of the remaining founder members of the Premier League if Villa go down, I think it’ll do them good unless Randy Lerner decides to pack up and take away his dollars.
Yes, Villa are in prime position to join the long list of “too good to go down” - there have of course been more than enough examples of this to show that football is no respecter of reputations and it’s only points that count at the end of the day, if you want to avoid feeling sick as a parrot.
Sorry, I’ll stop with the cliches now (I began by accident and then carried on for the fun of it - there couldn’t be a better thread for them, after all).
I suppose you could apply a similar argument to your statement about Arsenal - clubs/fans don’t “deserve” anything in a literal sense (I realise you did not mean it this literally, but still), except hooligans who deserve every bad thing that happens to them. Most football fans are quite self-entitled in that regard. Manchester United, arguably, didn’t deserve to go out of Europe last night but they did and there is no changing that. Ultimately the results tell their own story and over the course of the season luck tends to even out. Now, you can argue that fans who pay in the thousands of pounds for a bog-standard season ticket deserve proper investment by the club into the team that they love, so that they start playing attractive football or, more importantly to most fans, win trophies. And that may be a fairer argument to make in terms of Arsenal than blaming the manager. I don’t know, as I don’t follow Arsenal’s affairs in detail. I just remember how much I hated them 10 years ago, but it seems a lot longer than that and I’m almost sad now that they have really faded. Almost.
No surprise that Chelsea have dug their own grave with respect to attracting managers. It is the obvious place to go if you’re just after a shitload of money and you don’t care about your reputation. As a result, they are unlikely to attract managers of real calibre. I think the fans who protest the most are really just annoyed with Abramaovich, if only by extension in that he failed to hold on to Mourinho (in fact I believe he more-or-less gave him the boot). But they don’t want to get too angry with him directly, because they must be aware that without him they would likely have never risen from obscurity.
Regarding Bale, second-guessing what players “want” is not necessarily easy. It must depend a bit on the individual, surely? I mean speaking personally, if I really enjoyed my work, got on with my teammates and manager, had a great home life and friends, and was already a multi-millionaire, I’m not convinced I would automatically uproot to another country just to further my career. It is possible that some players would be content where they are regardless of how well their club is doing (Scholes and Giggs spring immediately to mind, though of course we will never know if my theory has any validity at all because they have been phenomenally successful). On the other hand, I’m not particularly ambitious career-wise, whereas most footballers are almost by definition - they had to be fantastically dedicated to get to where they are already. So maybe you’re right - we will see. Since there’s every chance that Spurs will finish 4th (or even 3rd), we may not know any time soon.
Spurs 3 Inter 0 - I wasn’t expecting that… Hopefully that should see us through to the last eight.
Mind you, Dante was probably a Spurs fan - “Abandon hope all ye who enter here” should be our motto…
I watched bits of the game and Spurs looked as impressive as Inter were awful. Hard to see them turning it around but stranger things have happened. Wonder what the odds are on Spurs scoring first in the second leg but still going out? Too long to be worth betting on, I’m sure!
Chelsea must be grateful that it has taken some of the focus off their poor result, though they are still favourites to go through I would say - an away goal in that game would make things interesting, perhaps.
I think Inter are concentrating on getting into a top three Serie A position rather than the Europa Cup. I still expected a better performance from them.
Regarding Arsenal/Arsene: There’s quite a split in their support, a few weeks back there was handbags at the New Library between pro and anti Wenger Gooners. After all he’s done for the club I can’t imagine him being sacked, more likely as Wallenstein says “gently pushed” to an upstairs job.
Has had the funds to spend on transfers and chosen not to? Arsenal are certainly cash rich which bodes well for the UEFA financial regulations, which of course Barca and Real won’t have to worry about…
[BTW, the “Woolwich Arsenal” is in reference to the fact that, while Spurs have been based in North London since their creation in 1882, Our new neighbours were a South London club who didn’t wander onto our doorstep until 1913 - and then, in 1919, bribed their way into the top division at our expense and have been there ever since.]
Regarding Chelsea/Rafa: I think it’s safe to say the fans are fairly united when it comes to supporting the manager…
With QPR and Villa both winning, it’s getting interesting at the bottom… With Wigan getting an unlikely 3-0 win at Everton in the cup (which should surely boost their confidence), it’s not unlikely that a side who have looked reasonably safe could get drawn into the relegation battle (I can do cliches too:))
If anyone had said, just five years ago, that the Old firm results today would be:
Ross County 3 Celtic 2
Rangers 1 Annan Athletic 2
They would probably find themselves still locked up in a secure mental institution.
Anyway, looking forward to the big match tomorrow… the one at Anfield!
Some “interesting” defending from Spurs! Clear penalty even though Suarez made the most of it. I thought Liverpool’s first goal was superb, really nice flowing football.
Bale got a few proper knocks but despite that if Sigurðsson had squared rather than shooting (to make it 3-1) it would have been game over.
Suarez is a nasty little git but he’s arguably the best striker in the Premiership on current form.
Any chance for Liverpool to make Top 4… highly unlikely but now their confidence is up you never know!
Hell, even 2 years ago you would have got some amazing odds on that (well, you wouldn’t in practice but you know what I mean).
You could argue that if you think Liverpool are about to start a hot run of form just at Tottenham are finishing theirs (and assuming Arsenal can’t get it together either) - personally, I think it more likely that yesterday’s result was a one-off good performance from Liverpool and shoddy defending from Spurs, and normal service will be resumed shortly - but what do I know?
Fergie admitted United were lucky to still be in the cup, so you know we must have been bad! If we were still in the CL he would probably have been (privately) annoyed that we didn’t just lose on the day, but without any more European football, an extra replay shouldn’t harm our league chances too much given the massive cushion. Winning the semi against City (if we can get past Chelsea, who have to be favourites now) would be sweet.
Like a submerged turd, gently breaking the surface of a placid pond, Liverpool are on the rise. Not to the top 4 though - they’re largely a workmanlike side who are being driven by a striker in phenomenal form. That goes a long way, but they don’t have the quality to make up the current deficit - 5th maybe.
[QUOTE=Busy Scissors;16086459"]
Like a submerged turd, gently breaking the surface of a placid pond, Liverpool are on the rise."
[/QUOTE]
Poetic… Wordsworth meets Larkin.
If I can add a second line:
" And The stench hangs over Stanley Park and the scars remain from Stanley knives".
I hope you’re right… but then again, I think only Spurs fans appreciate the vast gulf between the words ‘Hope’ and ‘Optimism’…
On the plus side Vertonghen seems to be getting better with every game (as are Holtby and Siggurdson), but on the minus side both Defoe and Adebayor look hopelessly out of form.
For the past four years , Everton have had a really strong end to the season after a fairly poor start. I wouldn’t rule them out, despite the weekend’s result.
McDermott’s been sacked at Reading - De Canio seems to be in the mix to replace him. I hope so. they’re at Man Utd. this weekend and I can’t help thinking “When Fergie met Di Canio” would make a memorable documentary…
Everton can be safely ruled out for fourth place, I am sorry to say. The weekend’s result was gruesome, but we’ve been playing quite poorly since Christmas. Two guys who have been performing at key positions, Jagielka and Howard, are out for several weeks. Moyes future is very unclear. Jelavic is stinking the place out on a weekly basis. Phil Neville is still a registered professional footballer etc etc.
We’re playing City this weekend (at home) and that will show where the team is at mentally. If they respond with a gritty performance, even if it’s a defeat, then we might have enough left in the tank to contest league positions with Arsenal and Liverpool. If we roll over then that’s it - freefall.
How much longer for Moyes, do you think?
It’ll be 11 years this week and he’ll be 50 next month. He must be thinking that it’s time to try something new… is he waiting for the Man Utd job (there was a time when he would have been a decent bet for that role)? I don’t think he’d fancy Arsenal, it’d be the same as Everton (decent side, nice club, but just not enough resources to consistently win trophies), but he’s not the sort of stellar manager than Man City, Man Utd, Bayern etc are looking for.
I’d say the concensus of online chatter is that he’ll be off in the summer - don’t think this is based on anything other than his failure to sign a contract though.
From his point of view he’s in a bit of a fur-lined rut at Everton - one of the top 10 highest paid club managers in the world, Alex-Ferguson levels of total control of his football club, UK media in his back pocket. So it’s hard to leave all that behind. Then there’s the obvious problem of where he could go. Utd has never been on the cards IMO as you can’t have someone with no European pedigree doing that job. Somewhat ironic, as their present incumbent is the biggest underachiever in the history of European football, but still there’s no way they can go for DM when SAF retires.
Saying all that, you see how Liverpool appointed Rodgers, and were looking at Martinez, and Chelsea are throwing around names like Poyet or Zola (!) - these guys aren’t in Moyes’ league. I guess you have to consider that the talent pool is quite small for top level club management.
From our point of view it’s tough to see him go as he’s a superb league manager. The club’s resources should see him duking it out for 10 / 11th place each season. Managers who can out-perform their funding level are rare - Moyes going could send the club off a cliff. Doubly so, as the comedians who run the club could in no way be depended upon to get the right replacement. OTOH, his safety-first mantra is responsible for failing in several big cup games over the years, he doesn’t appear to trust young players unless his hand is forced, he’s a very cautious tactician etc.
I wouldn’t mind him leaving now tbh - although I’d be bricking it over who we appointed in his place. Seems the time is about right for a new challenge for both Everton and DM.
Moyes would take the arm off Arsenal if they came knocking btw, as would any other manager. They are a superbly resourced club - they may rein it in with transfers but they pay big wages. The right manager at Arsenal could win the league.
How do you work that one out? The European Cup is incredibly competitive nowadays and has been for at least 15 years - no team has managed to dominate it so I think it’s unreasonable to assume that Fergie could/should have at any point. Yes, there have been one or two seasons where United have underperformed but it’s hard to complain about the overall return.
Your view on Arsenal is why I think it’s time for Wenger to go - on your analysis, he has certainly underachieved the last few years and I think it’s a rare case where fresh blood is the correct option.
It’s the final step that makes his record weak - sure you couldn’t complain about the general competitiveness of Utd in the Champions League - I think it’s 7 semi-finals all told. But an overall return of two European cup / CL trophies in 26 years? Not previously heard anyone say that’s anything other than disappointing tbh.
No doubt it’s disappointing to him given the number of opportunities that have slipped by, and to United fans in general, but I still think it’s churlish to criticise (and there’s a bit of a difference between that and your original statement that he is “the biggest underachiever in the history of European football”, IMHO). Looking at the records, since 1992 no manager has won more than two titles, the others who have done the double being del Bosque, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Hitzfeld, and Mourinho (the last two being notable for being the only ones to achieve it with two different clubs). Notable absentees from the list include Wenger, Trappatoni, Lippi, Deschamps, and several others considered top-class managers. As I said, I think this illustrates the fact that it is now extremely difficult to do more than win the odd European Cup or two, even with an exceptional squad of players, as there are many teams who fall into this category.
Seeing as most of the posters in this thread seem to be English: is it OK to talk about the Champions League games, or is it too painful? How is it perceived that for the first time in years there’s zero English sides in the quarter finals?
Also: Barcelona. Just … wow!
No, it is NOT OK! 
There’s been a few rumblings about fixture congestion and the lack of winter break, but I think it’s generally being seen as a one off. If it happens again next year I think there will be more concern.
I think Man Utd. were very unlucky with the Nani sending off.
Arsenal put in a great performance last night, but I think that Bayern were a bit overconfident and didn’t really turn up.
Chelsea and, even more so Man City, were awful.
On the bright side… it means a top four finish will guarantee a CL place next season.