Have you forgotten the excellent meltdown by lucwarm on this subject? It was heading here no matter what. Just give it time.
Agreed on both counts.
Slight difference. Given your example, if I inform Officer Copsky that I witnessed A mugging B and B exhibits physical evidence of having been mugged, then the Officer has a basis on which to arrest A and charge him with the crime.
If officers in general would issue citations based solely upon third party testimony, can you imagine the mess? The guy who doesn’t like you would claim you were speeding, the person with nothing better to do would produce a list of all the folks who did a rolling stop in front of her house, etc.
Perhaps some of the legal beagles aboard will offer more learned commentary.
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For those of you that insist “well, I am following the speed limit, so there”- there are a few points- I doubt very much if you have had your speedometer recently calibrated, so it is very likely you’re NOT driving the speed limit. Next- in CA at least- you can & will be cited for impeding traffic even if you are going exactly the speed limit*. This is rare, but it has happened when a bunch of cars are piled up behind you (there is a specific law that requires one to pull over - even to the point of using a turnout- if there are 5 (?) cars closely following you.)
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Next- it’s not YOUR job to enforce the speed law- in fact it is illegal for you to do so. Yes, when there is a 'clear and present danger" citizens should act- however, going 70 in a 65 isn’t “clear” “present” or a “danger”.
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Finally- doing this cause accidents- lots of them. It is extremely unsafe behavior. You are being the “danger”.
If they are tailgating you- pull over. Sure- sometimes you can’t. But most of the times you can.
So although the tailgater in the OP’s case was wrong- so was the OP. What he should have done was let the guy pass, get his license #, and call it in as a dangerous driver. I have done this several times, and in at least one case was rewared by seeing the tailgater pulled over. Not for “just a car length or 2 too close” but one of those real dangerous agressive talgaters- then yes.
So- just because the OTHER guy is being an asshole- doesn’t give you the right to be one too.
IANAL- in general- police officers do not have to witness a Felony. But they do have to witness a misdomeaner or lesser violation. Thus, if you saw a minor crime, but the officer didn’t- you’d have to “file a complaint”.
- I know someone is going to come here and say “But if I am going the legal speed, they can’t cite me”. Yes, they can- you can be driving the legal limit, and still get nabbed for improper lane changing or even tailgating can’t you? Of course you can- because those are different violations, not based upon your speed. So is “impeding traffic”- it isn’t based upon how fast you are going.
In reply to your post DrDeth:
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This did not occur in CA, so your cite is invalid. Furthermore, the reference to a calibrated speedometer makes no sense, in that very few private individuals go to the expense of having their speedometers calibrated, nor is it required, so why bring it up? When I’m on a limited access highway of appropriate speed limit with delineation markers and set the cruise on 60, if I pass a measured mile within a second or two of one minute, that’s accurate enough for me. When I pass the roadside trailers displaying the posted speed and my speed, it’s within 1 MPH of what my gauge displays. Finally, a chat with a State Trooper on the subject confirms that if one is operating at the speed limit, there is no obligation to yield the lane except for approach from the rear by an emergency vehicle.
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I wasn’t enforcing diddly. I left that job to the individual wearing the badge sworn and entrusted to do so.
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Opinion (yours). According to your logic, people would be pulling onto the berm (if one exists) constantly, as there’s always someone coming along who wants to go faster. Cite? How about a NHTSA study? When come back, bring facts.
Like danceswithcats, I’ve spent a certain amount of time driving backroads in Pennsylvania, in part because I like them. I realize that those of you in more urban or civilized areas may find this hard to believe, but on some of these roads there really isn’t a place on the shoulder wide enough to pull over for some miles. The roads twist and turn, and frequently go up and down the sides of hills. I used to live a mile and a half from town. On that mile and a half, there was one place where it was safe to pull over, and that was because a gas line cut through there. For all but the first quarter mile, you had a sharp drop on one side and a sharp rise on the other, with near constant twists and turns. There were two straight bits. On had the gas line cut, but that also had a dip which could conceal traffic before it continued heading up the hill; the other had houses on one side and a fairly sharp drop on the other. I used to be friends with a local policeman and he said they didn’t give tickets on that road because there was where they could set up their equipment.
I don’t drive slowly and, as I was driving home down the interstate, I got stuck behind a woman driving 40 mph in a 55 mph zone. I understand the desire to tailgate and I did flick my headlights at her a couple of times, not that it helped. I also will not drive at a speed which I think is hazardous to my speed or wallet, especially if I’ve seen policemen patrolling the road. If you don’t like it and I’m within 5 miles of the speed limit either way, pull around. You see, I don’t trust you to pay my speeding ticket or my medical bills. I’ll do what I can to accommodate you, including speeding up if I’m driving at or around the speed limit. I’ll also slow down in a passing zone or, if you’ve been tailgating long enough, on a flat, level bit so you can get around me. I won’t, however, pull over if I don’t think it’s safe to do so and, if you continue to tailgate, I will go slower. Meanwhile, get off my bumper!
CJ
That was well before my time, so thank you *so much *for causing me to spend a significant part of my afternoon boggling at that mind-bending display of cognitive dissonance. And not only that, but an overwhelming sense of deja-vu when re-reading the last page of this thread afterwards.
So who is going to be playing the role of Lucwarm in the 2005 reprise, I wonder?
[settles down with popcorn and cold beer]
Are we allowed to chime in with applause/jeers during flamewars?
Well, AAA and Progressive Insurance agree with him. I don’t want to plagerize **Debaser’s ** lovely post, so pop in and check it out.
I’ll take a stab at the role of lucwarm.
Okay, just kidding. I hate tailgaters. However, I also can’t stand it when I get stuck behind grandma when I am driving the roads of Pennsylvania. (It seems to be happening more lately since I got my 2005 Ford Mustang, even though I only got the V6).
I have to wonder about where the hell danceswithcats is driving. I cannot say that I have ever in my life had anyone push me into an intersection or otherwise intentionally make contact with my bumper, nor have I ever seen that.
Ever.
I gotta say that it doesn’t sound like coincidence to me. No offense, but perhaps you are pissing a bunch of people off with some really noxious slow-time driving. (Also, my first thought was about the calibration of your speedometer, but you’ve ruled that out.)
I don’t recall having too much problems on the backroads of Pennsylvania myself, unless you get in behind an Amish buggy. (danceswithcats, are you driving one of these bad boys around?) On the way to Gettysburg last weekend, I did have a few minutes behind someone doing the speed limit. I’ve got no problem with that, and eventually I did get around him.
What I cannot stand, what fills me with seething rage, is dumbfucks who ride in the passing lane on the highway. It turned out that I had to drive about 2500 miles a few weeks back, and I encountered a bunch of these folks, primarily in Ohio. These are the folks who ride in the passing lane, are oblivious to people behind them, don’t know what the flash of the headlights mean, and don’t even get over after several people end up passing them on the right. The worst one recently was on the turnpike in Pennsylvania, but (I kid you not) she had an Ohio license plate! We have a law now in PA that makes it illegal to ride in the passing lane. Oh, if only there had been a cop around when I needed one!
I’ll take a stab at the role of lucwarm.
Okay, just kidding. I hate tailgaters. However, I also can’t stand it when I get stuck behind grandma when I am driving the roads of Pennsylvania. (It seems to be happening more lately since I got my 2005 Ford Mustang, even though I only got the V6).
I have to wonder about where the hell danceswithcats is driving. I cannot say that I have ever in my life had anyone push me into an intersection or otherwise intentionally make contact with my bumper, nor have I ever seen that.
Ever.
I gotta say that it doesn’t sound like coincidence to me. No offense, but perhaps you are pissing a bunch of people off with some really noxious slow-time driving. (Also, my first thought was about the calibration of your speedometer, but you’ve ruled that out.)
I don’t recall having too much problems on the backroads of Pennsylvania myself, unless you get in behind an Amish buggy. (danceswithcats, are you driving one of these bad boys around?) On the way to Gettysburg last weekend, I did have a few minutes behind someone doing the speed limit. I’ve got no problem with that, and eventually I did get around him.
What I cannot stand, what fills me with seething rage, is dumbfucks who ride in the passing lane on the highway. It turned out that I had to drive about 2500 miles a few weeks back, and I encountered a bunch of these folks, primarily in Ohio. These are the folks who ride in the passing lane, are oblivious to people behind them, don’t know what the flash of the headlights mean, and don’t even get over after several people end up passing them on the right. The worst one recently was on the turnpike in Pennsylvania, but (I kid you not) she had an Ohio license plate! We have a law now in PA that makes it illegal to ride in the passing lane. Oh, if only there had been a cop around when I needed one!
I don’t think so - and pulling up lawnchair posts aren’t welcomed, either.
Hung Mung, you’re not the only one - I can’t get away with anything on the road. Oh well. I guess I just have to obey the traffic laws. 
BoBettie, the City of Calgary has bumper stickers on all their vehicles stating that, “If you can read this @50 kph, you’re following too closely.” I don’t know if they’re available to the general public; I wouldn’t mind putting one on my car.
Where do I drive? Many places, but partly in the Philly metro and 5 county surrounds, with the balance of my time in south central PA between York and Gettysburg. Two asshats ran into me in Philly proper, and the drafting-girl was in Bucks.
Such findings by insurance companies make sense. They don’t want to have to pay out to fix two vehicles because the tailgater was being a jerk and breaking the law, instead they’d rather have the person obeying the speed limit pull over. Rooty-toot-toot for them.
:upright middle-finger smiley:
I’m not a left lane hog. In numerous past threads about that subject I’ve sided with those who believe the left lane is for passing only. That said, it’s amazing how people get their asses out of joint if you don’t hop back into the right lane at the first possible opportunity. The problem with doing so is that now I’ve intruded into the passed vehicle’s safe following zone. I’d rather put 4-5 car lengths between my rear and their front before shifting back to the right, which is inconvenient for those who wish to do 90. Sucks to be them. 
What the hell does a recently calibrated speedo have to do with anything? The law doesn’t say YOU MUST GO 55 MPH HERE! Furthermore, it doesn’t sound like there was any traffic besides one jerk tailgating someone on a two/three lane road.
Look, if someone is on a multilane divided freeway and decides to go the speed limit and tap his brakes when someone pulls up behind him, he’s an asshole. If someone obeys traffic laws on a country road and a solitary person can’t wait to pass him legally at the next opportunity, it is the follower, not the followee, who is being the jerk. If someone on a country road has people piling up behind them, like two or three or five cars, he’d do well do pull over and let them pass. But that wasn’t the case here.
The guy tailgating was wrong, and the OP did exactly the right thing. It is really just that simple.
That’s quite the mind-picture I’m getting here…
Yes, it does seem to be an Ohio thing. Those folks don’t like changing lanes for some reason, and won’t travel in the right-hand lane because people merge into that from ramps, so they travel in the left-hand lane. I’m used to it, and I know they won’t change lanes, so I just overtake them on the right. That does seem to be legal round here.
::snort::
I’m relieved I’m not the only one imagining that process.
Point taken. Uncalibrated ones are unsafe at any speed. Think of the children.
I see this all the time and I think I know why. In Ohio the speed limit for trucks is 55, for cars it’s 65. Ohio is one of those states you pretty much have to go through to get out west from the northeast. So there are lots of trucks doing 55. There are also lots of cops in Ohio, so the truckers only do around 55. Hence people from Ohio tend to stick in the left hand lane so they can get around the trucks.
I hate going through Ohio because of this, and here in the DC area I can tell when someone’s from Ohio because they let everyone pass them on the right. I hate going through Ohio because of this.
This is something that I’ve not seen: a truck going at 55 mph on an interstate in Ohio. They go at 65 or more, with the rest of the traffic, and sit in the middle lane when there are three lanes (though they do move to the right lane when there are only 2 lanes).