In another thread we’re discussing hiring domestic help, and many Dopers have said that, in certain places, it’s expected of you once you reach a certain economic status.
I’m curious, what are you paying for that help?
In another thread we’re discussing hiring domestic help, and many Dopers have said that, in certain places, it’s expected of you once you reach a certain economic status.
I’m curious, what are you paying for that help?
Slightly above the government-mandated full-time minimum wage for Jakarta.
I could tell you the amount in terms of US dollars, but honestly … it would be meaningless unless you are familiar with the cost of living here in Jakarta.
I would like to hear about it, yes. If your maid is paid, say, the equivalent of $50 per week in USD, is that enough to put food on her family’s table for the week?
When we lived overseas, we often had a housekeeper who would come everyday and maybe cook dinner if we asked and do some shopping. In Aceh, Indonesia, we had a housekeeper who we paid, I believe $100 a month (it’s been a while, so that might not be what we paid). We arrived at the rate by paying the same to her that our office was paying for our cleaners. Whatever the actual rate was, it was considered a good monthly salary, especially for someone who wasn’t working a full day (if you clean a house everyday, it doesn’t take a lot of time to keep it clean). We also had a handyman who helped out when we needed work around the house, he was paid a daily rate that I can’t remember, but it was a good daily rate and more than he would have made working for an Indonesian family.
In South Africa there is a minimum wage which is R3500 (About $300) per MONTH. Many obviously get more than that but some get even less. We have a maid 3 times a week and pay her R950 (about $78) per week. She works somewhere else for the other 2 week days and gets the same from them (pro rata). Many maids (the SA term is domestic worker) generally get meals and either a transport allowance or accommodation as well. It is barely enough to keep someone above the poverty line. They often live far away and transport costs tend to take a big chunk of the money. They also travel long hours, often 2 to 3 hours, to get to work. A work day is anything from 7 to 9 hours. It is not much but the alternative I guess would be to do the work yourself and not pay anyone, which would only increase unemployment.
This is about right - although currently our staff salaries (we have 2 guards, 2 maids, and a driver) probably average closer to $300/month, depending on the exchange rate. They also get a month’s salary bonus every year at Idul Fitri (Indonesia’s version of the holiday at the end of Ramadan).
We also help long-term staff we trust in other ways. For example, we paid for all the cancer surgery of our nanny’s father, and we’ve recently paid the nursing school tuition of our driver’s daughter. We also make loans all the time, since people don’t tend to save in advance even for expenses like school fees that they can see coming.
As to whether the wage is a living wage or not - well, our staff seem pretty happy with what they get paid (as madmonk28 notes, expats usually pay more than locals).
Finally, we will give a very large amount of cash as severance pay when we leave - basically one month’s pay for each year worked. It’s going to cost us in excess of $20,000 to pay everyone.
I doubt you are so fascinated that you want to know such a deep level of detail, but if you really care that much, here’s an article from an expat website that covers most of the gory details about hiring and employing household staff in Indonesia:
I have no memory of what we paid household staff. The guards were paid by the embassy, but the housekeeper and gardener were on our nickel. It was good money in both Mali and Uganda, and there was fierce competition for the jobs. A letter of recommendation from a previous diplomat employer was like gold for these folks. We also helped out when problems were encountered, such as when one guy’s motorbike got wrecked. We bought him a new (used) one so he wouldn’t have to bicycle eleven miles each way to work.
Yeah, we helped out too. One of our office drivers had cancer and we helped pay so that he could travel to another city for better treatment options. Later when my wife got dengue and needed a blood transfusion right away, everyone on the team and I mean everyone, showed up to give blood. We really felt like part of the community there and we’re still in touch with people from the project more than 10 years later.
Before this thread totally sinks out of sight, I have to admit I am curious. Did you start this thread expecting to find out that people who have staff were exploiting them? Your question above suggests that this is the case.
As I am sure my fellow posters who have had lived in poorer countries and hired staff can attest, there is frequently a very negative, accusatory attitude from Americans who have never lived abroad and experienced the reality of what it means to have staff. The truth tends to be so much different than what people assume - more than once I have had friends express shock and horror that I have maids. When I explain things to them, however, they generally become much more understanding, and realize that I am not evil after all.
(This is not to say that household staff can’t be exploited and abused. Every year in Indonesia there are one or two terrible stories about Indonesian maids who went to jobs in Hong Kong, Malaysia, or Saudi Arabia, where they were terribly abused physically and/or sexually. But those stories are not representative of the vast majority of cases.)
Not in the least. If anything, I would have suspected that many Westerners paid better than wealthy locals.
On a per-hour basis, 50% over minimum wage.
Actually this is so far from the truth that I suspect you are completely uninformed of what’s going on.
Expats typically don’t make fantastic salaries. There are packages, which usually cover the additional expenses such as paid housing and flights back home and membership in the American Club or whatever.
In poor countries, the wealthy are wealthy. There are fewer of them, but they have serious money. They will pay their staff less because they can get hire the cheapest ones around. There isn’t any need for their maids or drivers to speak English, for example.
I was always a “local hire” which means that while my salary was fine, I didn’t get the typical package. Of course, my jobs depended on my language ability and they couldn’t have the normal expats for that. The only time I did the expat thing was a stay in the Philippines.
I agree with CC, there does seem to be an accusing tone here. Do you buy sports shoes or shop at Walmart? You know that the wages of the laborers make far less than the staff that expats hire. Are you as worried about that?
True enough. As an FS4 with the DOS, I was making about $42K/yr base salary, and my house was provided. I also got a 25% health differential in Africa. It was unimaginable wealth compared to what the typical local national made. My wife remembers that we paid our guy $125/month, which was very good pay for that economy.
Here in Panama I have a cleaning lady who comes in one day every two weeks. She does laundry and ironing and mops the floors. She has worked for me for the past 26 years. I pay her $25 per visit. It probably takes her 5-6 hours to do all the chores, so it works out to around $5.00/hour.
The minimum wage in Panama is between $1.20-$2.00/hour depending on the kind of job and the region. So she is quite well paid based on that. Salary for an office worker is generally $600-$700/month.
20 years ago when I first had a housekeeper, IIRC, we paid about $125/month plus all the rice they could eat (and they ate a LOT of rice).* Salary was always a bit above the going rate and it was a living wage. Plus we gave domestics a day off (and most of them found a second or third job for that day off). As China developed, wages increased significantly. Nowadays in Shanghai, a lot of expats actually use domestic help from the Philippines (owing to English language skills). Not sure the going rate for Chinese domestic help but something like $500 per month + housing. We didn’t need help that spoke English. After our twins were born, we had a live in nanny for each twin with separate rooms, plus a daytime housekeeper that did the cleaning, shopping and cooking. A typical Chinese family that could afford domestic help, would have had just one person looking after the twins and doing all the household work.
We also did things like New Year’s bonus, paid for train tickets home, and I’m sure entire villages wore outgrown baby/kids clothing until they fell apart. We helped countryside people get their kids into local schools (not easy). Yes, some of this was giving away things we didn’t want, or making a few phone calls or calling in some favors. That said, some of these made a seriously significant impact on their life. I don’t mean to come off as having done something noble, but it was a win win for everyone involved and not a parasitic exploitive relationship as some folks with no understanding of the country might misinterpret. We still keep in touch for one woman that worked for us about 10 years.
*This is meant as a joke. All of our staff ate the same food as we did, and we paid above the going rate with generally better conditions.
I don’t remember what my father paid, but it was not much.This was 1961. All the UN people had a standard rate - if there was a minimum wage I didn’t hear about it, but I suspect the pay was a lot higher, since these jobs were wanted.
My father got what seemed to me to be a modest per diem allowance, and was able to afford the servant, a nice house, school for us, and of course food and restaurants on it, since he saved his entire salary.
These were Congolese francs, which weren’t worth much using the official exchange rate and even less on the black market.
Actually, I was trying (maybe not with total success) to avoid accusing him of being accusing
You’ve added a lot of substance to the conversation - you’re absolutely right that most expats (even the better-paid ones, but certainly regular folks like teachers) aren’t in the same league as wealthy locals. And the need to speak English when working for foreigners, not to mention understanding the quirky ways of the gaijin/farang/bule/gringo, means it is kind of a separate labor market.
SA minimum wage is around a dollar/hr, and I pay our twice-a-week char around 3 times that. It’s generous compared to what the market pays. And yes, that’s enough to keep a family on.
In central Mexico we paid our two-day-a-week housekeeper 300 pesos for about 6 hours of work per day. At the time, it was about four times the daily minimum wage, and the going rate for non live-in help.
I assure all of you, I’m just curious about how the pay for low-wage workers like domestic help in poor countries pans out in terms of purchasing power, as well as how much it costs those who sign the checks. Such minutiae of daily life fascinates me. If you want to accuse me of being accusatory, so be it, but it was not my intention.