Thing is, a lot of us don’t believe them because they ignore the lion’s share of their holy commandments and focus intensely on homosexuality. And many, if not most, refer to “homosexual acts”. I don’t know about you, but when I see photos of a straight wedding ceremony the last thing on my mind is what they’ll be doing in the bedroom later. I see an unfolding path of apartment then mortgage, romantic dinners then babes in arms if children are in their future. The first Christmas tree. Children doing homework at the table as mom and dad prepare dinner. Proud parents at recitals, birthday celebrations, lovely vacations for the maturing couple, long walks hand in hand, famililar hugs, watching the kids graduate, rocking chairs on the porch…I see every aspect of the American dream except physical intimacy, which belongs to them alone. And the dream is the same for same sex couples.
I posted the OP because this thread is 4 pages in, and I didn’t read it to get here.
I feel between mostly indifference and squeamish. I have gay friends. I’ve been to their homes and have gone to their parties. They are nice people. However, I confess that I have a physically negative reaction in the pit of my stomach when I see two men kiss in person or on TV. Women also.
But I don’t object to them wanting tom spend the rest of their lives together, and I would go to a wedding if invited and provide a gift. But I am also one of those people that don’t like the word marriage used. Call it a union, with all the same rights, tax breaks health benefits, whatever that married folks have, but just call it something else.
Absurd? Perhaps. But that just shuts up so many people who can’t come up with another reason for them not to marry that I think it is stupid to hang on that word for principle.
Do you still call women dames, black people negroes, and dinosaurs “behemoths”? Or have your words evolved to reflect knowledge and changing social norms?
I sometimes call dinosaurs negroes, black people dames, and women behemoths.
Well, your mom is a large woman, but behemoth seems a bit over the top.
Neither?
Are straights cruising the bars and hooking up with strangers damaging to society? How?
I’m pretty far on the straight end of the sexual spectrum and pretty much on the happily married end of the social one. Seeing photos of gay weddings doesn’t bother me in the least. If any of my gay acquaintances got married, I’d be happy to attend their ceremonies.
The “I’m against it because Jesus” thing has come up a lot in this thread. And I do acknowledge that many opponents of SSM give that as their reason. But I’d like to state for the record that I am both a proud Christian and a proud queer woman, that I would very much like the opportunity to marry my Catholic girlfriend one day, and that Jesus never preached against homosexuality. So the way I see it, that argument doesn’t hold water.
Isn’t there a proven historical concept called the Thermidor Reaction: the pendulum swinging the other way? In 2012, there are now a generation of middle-age “WASP” men who, when they were school age, had had parents who didn’t succumb to white flight and who found themselves the new minority in freshly-integrated (and instantly underfunded) schools. Or white kids who fell through the cracks and found themselves guests of the criminal justice system. Or, despite White Privilege, were behind the power curve of the Reagan years and so escaped unemployment by joining the armed forces. These particular white males learned all about revenge.
It hasn’t “come up a lot” in this thread. It’s been argued-by-proxy many times by pro-SSM people but I think only once by the other side.
I don’t think that any argument against it holds water.
And religion forbids it because people thought “eeww gross gays are icky” back then too, and decided that God must feel the same way.
Or because they wanted lots of procreation. Who knows?
I am as straight as one can possibly be and I don’t think that two men having sex is icky. I don’t think about it at all.
Yes, we get that you’re in favor of marriage equality. Gold star for you. Just pointing out that you can go easy on the White Man Fear of retaliation. I know you feel you’d be madder than hornets if you were in their shoes, but we’re here to let you know that nagging feeling in the back of your head can go take a permanent vacation now. Your fears are absolutely 100% unfounded. Have a good day.
My SO and I would very much agree with what you are saying - we are not married to the word “Marriage”. I don’t care if you call it Xyptreded or Tzpmblded or whatever. And while some same sex couples are interested in having some kind ceremony - religious or not - we are like many heterosexual couples who are quite happy to just fill out some paperwork at the local court house and be done with it. No big party or reception or cake or anything that at all resembles Barbie and Ken’s big day. If some same sex couples want that, more power to them - but that is not us.
Unfortunately, all the laws regarding taxes, immigration, legal rights to Social Security benefits, inheritance, etc. etc. are written in stone with the word “married” couples. So unless they change all those laws and/or re-word them, there is no work-around to using the same word.
We have been together 31 3/4 years, have gone through the good times and bad times, and simply want the same legal rights of what is legally known as “marriage”. There are lots of benefits we are not getting now, while we are alive. And it would be nice to know that when one of us dies, the other is not treated unfairly. We have paid all the taxes, paid Social Security, shared our home and property and lives together just like any other couple.
So if it makes it easier, let heterosexuals keep the word “marriage” and we personally don’t give a damn what you call it for us, as long as it is equal in the eyes of the law.
Oh, and unless anyone happens to walk by that office at the court house, on that day, nobody will have to watch us kiss. Then again - if you did want to stop by and throw a handful of confetti, that would be cool too. We will be very, very happy that day.
Nope. This is the trap some of my fellow heteros want you to fall into. If the words are different, there will always be the possibility of differences in definition. Separate but equal is a chimera. It can’t exist. Demand your equality, you and your partner deserve it as much as me and my partner do. Marriage it was, marriage it is, marriage it will be.
Thanks. I’m happy to know that you understood and agreed with the point I was getting to. If you take the word out of the argument, I find most people don’t have much to say (unless they go the religious route, and bring god into it). But in my limited sample set, most of the people I’ve spoken to get so hung up on the word “marriage” that it completely deflects the real issue, which is that same sex couples should have the same rights as hetero couples that marry. Lose the word, get the result you desire…
This is simply not true. And this is why the argument remains so strong. You are making same sex couples fear the dropping of the demand for using the word marriage, which it turn continues the debate ad nauseum.
This isn’t a “separate but equal” issue, like the segregated south. This is simply a Red herring to keep the issue “status quo”. It’s like calling a BMW a bimmer. Same exact thing, different word. Stupid? You bet. But if it’s the only road block keeping people from making their relationship official in the eyes of the state, I don’t think the fight is serving the homosexual community. It serves the heater zealots who want to keep things just the way they are.
68? Fuck you, turn it up to 74!
Go put on a sweater, you cow and don’t touch the thermostat!
(Sorry, just imagining what life with a heater zealot might be like.)
No, I’m perfectly happy continuing to argue for the word marriage to apply equally to het and homo relationships. You may think it’s a waste of time, but I consider it reminding the bigots that we don’t give a shit about what they think and it doesn’t matter anyway because there are more of us than there are of them.
I live in such a country. We have had Civil Partnerships for six years now, and I’m struggling to think of how they legally differ from marriage (well, we can’t use ‘adultery’ as grounds for ‘divorcing’, as presumably the law makers couldn’t decide how to define adultery for us), but other than that, Civil Partnerships are pretty much identical.
So, we should be content with that, right? Wrong. I have lost count of the number of conversations I have had with straight friends about my own impending CP, along the lines of ‘so, is it like a marriage?’, ‘do you call it a wedding?’, ‘what will you call each other? Wife? Partner’? ‘Is it the same as marriage?’. These are the good people, who love and support us, but even they don’t get it. The word matters. It isn’t just about equality in law, it’s about equality in recognition and respect.
And even our right wing government now agrees. Which is why an equal marriage bill is currently being drafted, and only 100 MPs out of a House of 650 say they will oppose it.
Do catch up.
… because adding a whole set of laws that say “This is *just like *a marriage, but it isn’t really, although we can’t tell you why it isn’t, but it’s not a marriage, but it really is just like one (for you people)” will certainly work our well and fairly.