Kabbes, as much as I dislike coming to the defense of Major Fellatio, most of the reasons why we consider the US’s entry into WWII to have been the right thing to do today (i.e. the Holocaust) were not known about until near the end/after the war. Much of the American populace wanted to stay out of something they felt was an European affair and preferred isolationism.
That said, M.F. learn a few basic concepts, the first is that it is called the World Wide Web for a reason. So get used to the fact that it has other views.
This is why America is so great. When we run out of homegrown Uglies, we can import the jingoistic bastards. People are rushing here from all corners of the Earth, just so they can take up the worst aspects of our national psyche.
Nasty is nasty, whether it is imported or domestic.
Man, I’ll hate myself for this in the morning.
I’m about as eager to lay claim to this guy as I would a nice case of cholera or ebola, but in all fairness “of British origin” could just mean the generic background many Americans claim. Sorta default-descent, if you get what I mean. His statement is pretty vague.
Not that I wouldn’t love to dump him on someone else’s doorstep but there’s just enough doubt to house a hideous fear that he might be a gen-u-wyne, homegrown, star-spangled idiot.
Actually, what brought the US into the war in Europe was Germany (and Italy) declaring war on us to show solidarity with Japan. Strategically speaking, Hitler was a first-order moron.
Gary Kumquat said:
One nation could make a better case for being responsible than anyone else. That nation would be the Soviet Union–some 9 out of 10 German soldiers killed in the war were dispatched by the Soviets. (So, Major Feelgud, I’m sure you’ll be kissing some Russian ass real soon, right?)
kabbes said:
And maybe if the UK and France had had the guts to stand up to Hitler when he reoccupied the Rhineland–or later stood with the Czechs instead of selling them down the river for “peace in our time”–France could have avoided being overrun in the first place. For that matter–this isn’t meant as a slam at the Irish posters here, but it’s a historical fact–the Republic of Ireland never did enter the war. There’s plenty of blame to spread around, if that’s what you want to do.
Slamming Major Feelgud is one thing–he frequently cries out for it–but if you’re going to bash Americans in general you’re no better than he is.
I guess we are all of African origin according to a popular theory doing the rounds, and this statement from you holds what particular relevance in the issue of proven police incompetance which led to 96 fatalities ?
Good lord, why on earth did you make such an intemperate and ill-judged statement?
Tell me that you regret it please, I do not like to hold folk in disrespect and your admission that this was not the best thing you have posted would go a long way toward preventing that and I would hope that other Dopers would see it the same way too.
It takes a certain strength of character to admit when one is wrong, I hope that you have this.
Historical innacuracies bug me even more when I’m the one who makes them.
ruadh said:
You are quite correct–Ireland did not exist as a republic during World War II. My bad.
However, what is now the Republic of Ireland did exist as an independent nation during the war–Dominion status as of 1922, and a constitution declaring themselves a fully-sovereign state as of 1937, according to my information. And Ireland, whatever its official name (still the Irish Free State?), remained neutral during the war.
Yes, Ireland did remain neutral. But, come on, we’re talking a population of about 3 million people. It’s hard to imagine that the Irish army would have made much of a difference in the outcome of the war anyway.
Apologies to anyone who may have taken my statement as being critical of the US. Heaven knows there are always political contexts to complicate matters. I was just trying to point out to minor annoyance that to go about declaring that them good ol’ US boys went in a’whoopin’ Nazi ass, altruistically savin’ us all from extinction is just stupid. Things are always more complicated than that.
Bah - I think I’ve already wasted enough time on this dung beetle - once my posts about him/it exceed the number of fingers on one hand, he/it will have clearly taken too much of my attention.
DeValera was trying to rebuild a country after a Civil War. We had only recently regained our independence. We had just come off the back of 300 years of continuous unrest against a foreign oppressor and we had a piss poor excuse for an Army. Many Irish people joined the british army. We suffered under the same rationing that the British did. just because we didnt officially enter the war, dosent mean we weren’t affected by it.
It’s also worth mentioning that the British where not our greatest friends at the time. We had recieved guns from the Germans only 20years before when we were fighting a war of independence with Britian.
Also Churchhill wanted control of all our ports if we entered the war. This would basically be handing power back to the British which would have been a very brave thing to do indeed. Could any Americans here imagine Washington handing back control of parts of America(America of the Day) back to the British 2 decades after getting self determination by force.
As has already being mentioned a great number of Irishmen fought in WW I & II. My Grandfather faught in Burma.
Just to show people the kind of feelings involved. There is a arch at Stephens Green in Dublin which is a monument to the Irish dead from WWI. It was/is called Traitors Gate.
I was using the example of Ireland’s neutrality to make a point about the late US entry into the war, not to discredit the Irish. In both cases, domestic politics dictated what happened. A republic can’t successfully go to war if the mass of the people won’t support it–I think Vietnam proved that. It would have been surprising if Ireland hadgone to war as allies of the British.
yojimbo said:
Not at all–that would just have advanced the War of 1812 by 10 years or so. (And probably got our butts kicked if the Brits weren’t busy fighting Napoleon.) It took the majority of the 19th Century for us to become friendly with the former colonial power–there was probably no chance at all the Irish would do it in 20 years.
