dnooman, you appear to be very satisfied by what you must imagine is some stirring success in your debate in this thread. I’m glad that you are able to feel as though you’ve accomplished something here. Congratulations. You still haven’t made a reasoned argument, but I’m glad that you’re able to pretend that you are somehow winning here, when the evidence is that most people - myself obviously included - simply aren’t willing to waste the time required to speak with you. I think you have your new argument strategy! If you act stupid enough, no one will want to talk with you - and then you’ll win arguments by default!
It’s not a strategy I would use, but you’ve got unique talents that make it particularly right for you. And besides, it’s not like you have any other hope.
Pray tell, what should she have done? Mmm? Since there wasn’t any help forthcoming, how should she have behaved?
I’m actually quite intrigued by this; you have repeatedly demanded that other people act like doormats when service personnel choose not to provide the service they’re being paid for. Obviously there is no rational argument to be made that a customer is somehow morally obligated to simply wait for an indefinite period of time until workers decide to extend them the courtesy of performing the jobs they are being paid for. Nevertheless, your statement here requires someone to submit to poor service in precisely that way.
So present your argument. Why should a “rational person” accept such poor treatment without complaint? You won’t be able to present a meaningful argument to that effect, but frankly, I look forward to watching you try.
I had an experience just like this on Saturday. A bunch of us went out to a bar and after we’d finished the food and the first round the waitress never came back. I mean, never. At least half of us wanted more beer and we put up our hands but no dice. We joked loudly about wanting more to drink when the waitress was right behind us but no deal. Normally we’ve gotten really good service at this place, but I think that was because we always sat in the smoking section and they take better care of you there. I’m not going back, unless we sit in the smoking section. The whiny asthmatic bitch who wanted non-smoking didn’t even drink any alcohol.
The worst part? There was a 15% gratuity fee because it was a large party. So we couldn’t not leave a tip. I’m debating about whether to write a letter; it seems pretty whiny, but it was a really shitty night and the “serving” didn’t help.
I agree. Just seems like a harmless joke to me. I also wouldn’t call myself “disabled” if I only had a broken bone, but that’s just me.
You can “not leave a tip” even with a 15% gratuity fee. Just go speak to the MGR and explain how the service was.
You know, I think I need to put this in a Word doc and just copy to all these threads- Unhappy with Service? *See the MGR! * Unhappy with food? *Complain to waitstaff, then if no fair solution forthcoming, go to MGR. * No one takes your bill? Go to front counter, ask for MGR- no one there? stick nose into kitchen and loudly demand MGR if nessesary.
He seems to be doing quite well as far as I can see. His arguments are well reasoned and on the side of civilized behavior.
“when the evidence is that most people - myself obviously included - simply aren’t willing to waste the time required to speak with you.” This is in the middle of a 5 paragraph response. :rolleyes: Do you write a 20 paragraph response when you *are * willing to waste the time?
Five whole minutes then resorting to yelling and threats? Try- calling out “Hello, anyone here?” Then, if that fails- sticking nose in kitchen and saying “hello, I need help up at the register!”. *Then, * you can get rude.
Who said anything about "accept such poor treatment without complaint"? You’re very good at putting words in other peoples mouths. It’s not a strategy I would use, but you’ve got unique talents that make it particularly right for you. And besides, it’s not like you have any other hope.
I apparently missed that part entirely, because what I saw said nothing but “rational people wait longer than that” and “five minutes isn’t very long.” Perhaps you are confused about what an argument is, since neither of those things is an argument at all, good or bad. They are opinions, delivered with snarky gibes at PunditLisa for not submitting graciously enough to the incredibly poor treatment she received.
When you don’t have to look every word up in the dictionary, it doesn’t take very long to compose a brief post like that one.
Sure. Or you can demand adequate treatment after five minutes, when the restaurant’s employees have already been rude enough to have ignored you completely.
This is not a situation that calls for any particular forbearance on PunditLisa’s part.
Actually, you’re wrong because your position in this thread is a hysterical over-reaction. And by “hysterical,” I don’t mean “really funny.”
There’s no part of this that makes even the tiniest little bit of sense.
And where in this thread has PunditLisa used the word “screaming”? I do not believe those are her words at all. I believe you are inventing things in a desperate attempt to shore up your inexplicable and unsupportable position in this thread.
Hmm. Where you say “belligerance,” I’d say “conviction.” I’d also swap “initiative” for “impatience,” “forward” for “rude,” and “right” for “wrong.” And “disinterest in dealing with your bullshit” for “unwillingness to argue her own case.” We’ll get to “willingness to break the law” in a minute.
But other than that, I agree with you completely.
I can’t speak for her, but that’s my take on it. Why is this unreasonable? If the restaurant doesn’t want to take her money, what is she supposed to do? Live out the rest of her life in the restaurant?
Yes, and being in an emergency room is exactly like eating at a restaurant! The similarities are so overwhelming! Why, just the other day, I was at a restaurant and the waitress came up and jabbed my dining companion with a needle. He was about to complain, but then I pointed out that this was exactly what one would expect a nurse to do if they were in an ER, and he had to concede that I was right. We finished our meal and left her a big tip.
This is, in a nutshell, why your post is stupid. If she announces her intentions in the first place, it’s not theft. If I walk into a store and ask the cashier, “Is it okay if I take this without paying,” and they say “Yes,” I haven’t stolen anything. It’s a gift freely given by the store. This is exactly what PunditLisa did: she asked if the restaurant intended to give her a meal for free, or if they wanted her to pay for it. Apparently, they decided they wanted the money. If, even after that, no one had taken her money, it would be a clear indication that no one wanted her money, that for some reason, the restaurant decided to give out free food that day. Your ridiculous attempts to spin this as some sort of immoral, immature, or irrational act on PunditLisa’s behalf are entirely unconvincing. Apparently, you do not object to being treated like a doormat when you dine out. That’s fine for you, I suppose, but you should realize that most other people don’t really care for it, and are going to take steps to see that it doesn’t happen to them.
dnooman and, to a lesser extent, DrDeth: Time is relative. Sometimes 5 minutes is a long time. Sometimes it is not. Five minutes in the waiting room is a short period of time because, for good reason, it usually takes longer than that. Here’s a brief list to illustrate my point:
five minute trip to work - short period of time
five minute orgasm - long period of time
five minute wait at the DMV - short period of time
five minute search for a lost child - long period of time
five minutes between scores in a football game - short period of time
five minutes between scores in a basketball game - long period of time
five minute argument with your wife - short period of time
five minute argument with your cab driver - long period of time
five minutes waiting for customer service on the telephone with your ISP - short period of time
five minutes of waiting for customer service at the cash register of a restaurant - long period of time
I didn’t miss it. But she didn’t specify who or what that person was. Waitstaff? Management? Busboy? Cook? Perhaps a janitor who wasn’t a actual employee? Another type of non-employee, perhaps a friend or visitor?
But this just called for- in dnoomans post “Please note that I have not, nor will I, endorse the guy at the counter’s behavior. He was rude, plain and simple. Should he be fired, IMO probably. Still, cash control procedures at many restaurants prohibit unauthorized employees from accessing the till.”
Oh, wait,* someone* said that **dnooman **would accept this “without complaint”. Yep, having someone fired for their behavior is not a “complaint” I guess. *In Bizarro World.
Doesn’t matter. When you ask your customers to pay at the cashier stand, you man the cashier stand…with a person who is trained to run the cash register. I thought the second part was pretty obvious, but apparently not.
BTW, at the risk of making your head explode by my lack of ethics, if I pulled up to a “Change provided” toll booth with nothing more than a $20 bill, and there was no one manning the booth, I’d pull right on through and not feel even the slightest twinge of guilt. Now you and dnooman would undoubtedly be stuck there for hours, delayed only by your code of honor that is in the league of shogun, but IMO you’d be nothing but a schmuck.
Sure it matters- it matters as his response was clearly important to you. If it had been a contracted Janitor, then “it’s no my job” was the correct thing to say, and not ruse. Yes, the cashiers stand should be manned. But as I said- Try- calling out “Hello, anyone here?” Then, if that fails- sticking nose in kitchen and saying “hello, I need help up at the register!”. Then, you can get rude. Neither dnooman nor myself suggested waiting forever. Just for a bit.
Tell, me- was the restaurant named “Godot” “The Robert E Lee” or "“Till the sun shines, Nellie”?
Actually, the correct thing to say is “I’m sorry, I don’t work here.” “It’s not my job” carries the implication that the person works at the establishment in another capacity, and is irritating even without the connotation.
I can’t think of any right way of taking that. It’s a completely inappropriate comment to make, especially about a customer of yours. As far as I know, you do not make jokes at the expense of your customers’ medical conditions, permanent or temporary.
I was being facetious by referring to myself as “disabled,” although to be quite honest, after a few weeks crutching through a Montreal winter, I felt pretty disabled; besides, he had no way of knowing whether the condition was temporary or permanent. To make jokes at the expense of someone’s limited mobility is just ill-bred.
Some are nasty. Some aren’t. Once coming home from leaving a relative in the hospital, the fare was $6.40 or close to it. All I had was a $20. He had no change.
I gave him the twenty, and the next day, I come home and find an envelope on the doorstep with the exact change from the $20!
That was a part of dnooman’s proposal. The other part of the proposal (the part to which people are objecting) was that the customer just suck it up and wait for the restaurant staff finish whatever vitally important activity was keeping them from doing their jobs. At that point, the customer would be allowed the privelege of paying for her food. At no point, though, should she audibly express frustration at not having anybody to pay. That part of the proposal is utterly ridiculous.
He said nothing of the sort. Gods, you’re like a Mallard Fillmore cartoon, putting words into the mouths of “liberals”. :rolleyes:
He said (and I agree) that loudly shouting out a threat to steal after a mere five minutes- and being prepared to do so- is rude, and stealing. We never said you shouldn’t complain- even to the point of a complaint serious enough to get someone fired, and that the behaviour of the person behind the counter was rude. I went on to say “*Try- calling out “Hello, anyone here?” Then, if that fails- sticking nose in kitchen and saying “hello, I need help up at the register!”. Then, you can get rude. Neither dnooman nor myself suggested waiting forever. Just for a bit.”
*
Where do the words “just suck it up” appear? Where do the words “don’t complain” appear? Nor has anyone suggested waiting forever.
It’s just that a short wait and a bit of rudeness on the part of what could have been a janitor- *does not give you the right to steal. *
