I see your point. In my mind there is the unspoken qualifier “based on our current knowledge” The fact that there are details about a possible afterlife that we can’t explain, such as the senses thing, doesn’t seem any different than the possibility of an afterlife. We just don’t know. I also understand the concept of meaningless questions, but the questions about an afterlife aren’t going away. It is so persistant that I’d have to say it serves some purpose in the human psyche. If it is unnessecary for some then fine, but that doesn’t change it’s potential for others.
And, by the way, I asked for examples of true beliefs that weren’t useful. Your original statement was that you would choose a false belief that was useful over a true belief that wasn’t. In this post. you diverted the discussion by merely giving your name (intellectual puritanism) to my claim came back with hypothetical false beliefs that in your opinion were useful. You ignored my question and provided only hypotheticals as support to refute my statement that false beliefs are a poor basis for action.
Shame on me for not catching that sooner.
It’s a nice thought but is it a certainty? Hardly. It’s just as easy to guess that a belief in no afterlife will mean some folks idea of the fullest life will be an entirely self serving immoral one.
I agree. I tend to take “the truth will set you free” fairly literally. However, not all of the beliefs that move us are based in scientific fact. At some point it requires an element of faith to choose and follow a subjective philosophy.
I think there is a time when we need to leave “fairy tales” behind but I think that decision is up to the individual. It’s good to promote a culture that has a reverence for a a strong committment to the truth. {If only our leaders felt that way} I also think that having our mythology along the way is a normal part of the human experience. It’s part of the learning process.
I think your observation is pretty significant. I think that’s part of what bothers me about an attitude that pervades a lot of religions and society in general. I know a lot of people who are willing and even eager to have their pastor or thier group tell them what to do and provide their dorection. They seek freedom from the weight of personal responsibility. The congregation becomes a pseudo family, and it is their approval and acceptance that matters, as much as any desire seek God or truth.
I think even believers are called to create their own destiny through choice and a committment to personal growth.
OTOH, While it’s great that this mindset works well for you, it’s not be the correct one for everyone. An atheist point of view doesn’t guarantee a positive outlook for anyone any more than a religious one does.
Reincarnation and afterlife don’t necessarily have to do with God or gods… maybe nature recycles conciousness into other life forms. Or maybe we are spirits bound to earthly bodies…
In the end what does it matter ? If we atheists are right… then everyone is dead dead dead… if we are wrong… we will probably enjoy the afterlife just like every other theist… maybe even a bit better since we didn’t lose so much time praying to the wrong gods. Osiris or Odin must be mighty pissed with these Christians ! 
Obviously I misread your question, but not because I was trying to “divert” but because you followed up with
which is what I focused on.
I have no interest in a hostile debate on the subject, and it’s a hijack anyway. You win: all true beliefs are useful and all false beliefs are harmful.
When we die, we die. That’s it. There’s no afterlife. There’s no reincarnation. “Imagine there’s no heaven. It’s easy if you try.”
Man is just another animal on this planet. A couple of million years ago we started to develop speech. This has given us the ability to pass learning on from one generation to the next. The exponential growth in civilization since the printing press was invented is proof that the increase in shared communication is key to this progression.
So, we’re talking apes. Would apes go to heaven? What about dolphins? What about groundhogs, or squirrels, or mice? Why stop with mammals? What about cockroaches or snakes or mosquitoes?
And if we did go to heaven, what form would we take? How would I recognize my 2 miscarried children? How about someone who died at age 110 with severe dementia? Would he now be a svelte 21 year old again? Or someone who died in a violent fiery crash?
It’s all nonsense. We’re organic tissues and we decompose back into the ground. Period.
And some folk’s idea of a religious existence is subjugating and controlling others according to the rules of their god of choice. People suck sometimes. If there were any way to ever test it, I would still bet everything I have that religion doesn’t corner the market on morality and selflessness. In fact, if history is any kind of a teacher, it is a certainty that religious thought has resulted in more violence and self-serving immorality than any atheistic thought.
So, it’s a nice thought that belief in an afterlife means that people will play nice and be good, but the collected wisdom of civilization demonstrates just the opposite. That, neighbor, is as much of a certainty as you’re going to get.
You miss my point. I am not asserting that a spiritual path is morally superior. I am saying neither atheism nor a spiritual or religious path has any moral superiority and that neither provides any higher percentage of probability of a fuller richer life.{which is what you asserted} I think belief or non belief is superficial and it is something deeper within us that determines what path we choose from that point.
you said
If atheism is more life affirming to you then great. There’s nothing to show that it is or isn’t for people in general, or that atheists in general lead fuller lives than believers.
Concerning your history reference. I’ve had this discussion here before. I am aware of religious atrocities. There’s no way to make any realistic or fair comparision. That’s not in defense of those atrocities or religion in general. Just a statement of fact. For those who think it’s obviously true, it isn’t. One poster, when reminded of Communist atrocities said he considers that a religion too. Sheesh!
I’ve been looking for you. You ran off without paying for that corndog. That’ll be one dupondius, pal!
Tiberius-cattinious
Who’s to judge morality? And who’s to judge whether their life is being lived to its fullest?
Unfortunately for all of you, when I die… everything will be gone… since you are all created by my imagination.
I don’t discount the possibility of the wipe-and-try-again scenario, but the most probable answer is that we simply vanish like a blown-out candle flame.
LOL… NP I’ll write a check straight way and sign the name I had 1837 1/2 years ago.
Yes, but my, and our imaginations live on to ctreate anew.
Blown out candle flames leave a lot of smoke and smell… would that be your soul ? :dubious:
You sound like you’ve been reading Rand.
Now, this below isn’t just directed you, but to anyone who thinks this way, whether or not that includes you:
I’m not completely sold either way on God or the afterlife, but I think the idea that atheism is more life-affirming is ridiculous. Believing in God, the afterlife, or anything else shouldn’t affect the extent of fullness to which one lives life. Afterlife or no afterlife, I live my life “to the fullest” every day just as much as you.
Of course, the opposite is true as well, I suppose. Just because you don’t believe the same things as someone else doesn’t mean you can’t live a fulfilling life. Of course you can.
Believe what you want, and in what you want, but don’t tell me that because of what I believe, that I’m not truly living, or that I’m not using my time to the fullest, or anything else like that. That’s just not right.
Dying might be like waking up and realizing that the “life” you lived was just a dream.
Or it could be like game-over in a very immersive game. A game so engaging that you forget you had a non-game life… (can see this nearly happening with those MMORPG games…)
(of course tons of movies have been made abt these ideas. Plato’s Cave is also a similar idea)
That’s interesting. I’m not sure if it’s quite what you’re getting at but I have thought before that, if the universe is infinite, then it’s inevitable that there is, will be, or has been an entity somewhere out there that’s in the exact state (with the exact same memories and so on) that I will in be at the time of my death. If that’s true then it would seem that “my” consciousness would necessarily carry on in that entity. Maybe from our own point of view, we’re all immortal…
As for my own beliefs, I’m sort of torn between
“When you die, that’s it, there isn’t any more, it’s just like going to sleep and never waking up”
and
“We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves”
The second quote is taken directly from a Bill Hicks routine, but I’ve had similar thoughts myself and can’t think of a better way of expressing them.
In summary then, my answer is: 
That happens all the time: other people are born and die. That is still irrelevant to you.
But it couldn’t be exactly the same, since it will be at a different time.
The universe doesn’t comprise infinite atoms (10[sup]79[/sup] is a guess I’ve seen elsewhere) nor infinite time (one end is 13.7 billion years away, and even though we don’t know how far the other end configuration is, it is still not long enough for such infinitessimal probabilities to rise from the negligible.)