The junta does not trust THE WEST. It IS about more than America - as I stated in my post. The junta is a bunch of evil military dictators who do NOT want to let the civilized world into their shithole, for fear of losing power. That is WHY they have fought the aid deliveries.
And they SHOULD be afraid. If the West wanted to, we could take away the junta’s power. Unfortunately, while we are damned good at knocking governments off of their perch - we pretty much suck at putting something decent in their place.
I think the UN is well-positioned to invoke the Right to Protect with respect to Burma, and that they are obligated to do so.
On the R2P website, the R2PCS response to calls to invoke R2P is, I think, misguided:
I would argue that the Burmese government’s deliberate obstruction of the relief effort constitutes an act of institutional genocide. I tend to favour a broader application of the genocide framework, and I think it applies here. The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (link) includes a five part definition of genocide, which states in part:
Gregory Stanton of Genocide Watch has interpreted this to include:
In this regard, I think the obligation to intervene is clear. However, the UN’s response to genocide has been abysmal and there is no clear articulation of how to put the policy of R2P into practice.
Still, I’m disappointed, frustrated and more than a little angry. I don’t know what the solution is, but I’m certain it will involve forcefully going into Burma. Though, if we wait much longer, the issue will be a moot point because it will be too late.
Of course we could, effortlessly, and if we wanted to we would just go and do it. That’s why the Junta is so stupid. If we decide to come into Burma, we’re going in and the Junta is going down, period, end of sentence. We wouldn’t shilly shally around offering aid as some kind of “cover” for our armed forces. We’d just send in the armed forces.
You mean like the way we “just sent in the armed forces” with Iraq ? Why, no, we didn’t; we spent a long time trying to convince people that it was all about Weapons of Mass Destruction, terrorism, mobile labs, and fleets of drones. We like excuses for our wars of conquest.
It was probably completely lost on you but we spent literally months sending forces and building up for that invasion. We didn’t do it over night disguised as some sort of relief mission. Or did you not actually read the thing you quoted but simply decided to rant using that as the start of your mental tape recorder?
Clearly the circumstance in Burma has nothing in common with Iraq … really at any level.
Still there are unknowns. What is the likelihood that forced aid will provide a much better outcome for those on the ground than the slow aid dripping throught the junta? If we just drop off supplies without any distribution system on the ground could we be setting up people to kill each other over food and supplies? What are the actual risks involved in each means of intervention vs the likelihood of what possible benefits?
To me it seems that the cost of inaction is huge and that waiting for more slow drip is signing many people’s death warrants. An international military intervention (limited to food distribution or taking down the junta, either way) is not going to be organizable in a time frame fast enough to make a difference to the outcome. A unilateral American effort is not something we have the capablility to take on with our troops already stretched beyond thin. We are left with dropping food in, in an international effort (I do not see the military junta having much ability to defend its airspace from such an effort), and knowing that doing such without on the ground infrastructure to organize distribution is likely to result in chaos and even some violence. But it is the least poor option there is.
IDK what your rolleyes refers to. Are you saying that:
We want to invade Burma?
We couldn’t just invade if we did want to?
We would cobble together a fake “rescue” mission to invade Burma?
Actually, in Burma’s case, the people really DO want the US to invade. In fact, they look at Iraq and hold out hope that Burma is next. George Bush is wildly popular among the populace. Foreigners are constantly being asked when it will happen, and why hasn’t it happened yet, and could we please hurry it up. Many of the citizens are convinced it’s just a matter of time before the US invades, a prospect they look forward to with glee. It’s very sad.
And the junta also seems convinced they are next on the list. They’ll see any attempt to force aid as the beginning of such an invasion and probably freak in unpredictable ways.
BTW: In the other Burmese-storm thread, I mentioned that our local internationally award-winning political cartoonist, Stephff, had a series of cartoons on the Burmese storm. You can see them here.
Since this is a pertinent thread, I hope I’m not breaking any rules to promote a campaing I’m helping to run, that isn’t getting any attention (yet). Here’s a thread about helping Burma rebuild.
BBC Television said the Thai prime minister just returned from Burma and was told by the junta that they had everything under control and needed no outside help whatsoever. I will be very, very surprised if the junta ever allows in even asingle foreign aid worker. They honestly could not care less if the whole country dropped dead.
I mean that some of us still don’t seem to have learned that conquering a country is one thing, and ruling it is quite another, and sometimes the latter can be far more difficult than the former.
Put another way: Just because a country has a very, very bad government does not necessarily mean destroying that government is a good idea. What comes after might be even worse.
If we were corrupt conquerers, let me tell you what we’d do.
FIrst off, we’d begn extermination proceedings. You can’t go home and you can’t stay here. Either get off or get out. After all, we don’t need all those cities or things. So they’re gone. The water sources can be easily controlled and we can easily annihilate the entire population. With nuclear weapons if we pleased. Failing that, we could begin mass enslavement. We can even play one side against another to completely eradicate all sectors of the independant people we wish to control.
We would have no fewer than 3 million solder in the field. Poor training doesn’t matter - the important thing would be to simply slaughter all the men who resist. The women we take possession of. All resources, including cultural artifacts of value, machinery, oil, and skilled workers becomes possessions.
That’s conquest. No mercy. Total control. Total power. You don’t send wealth over to the place you conquer.
Edit to add: We do not rule Iraq, Brainglutton. I know some people have a hard time recognizing this, and we do have considerable influence. But Iraq has its own government which is our close ally. But we do not rule them.
Wait until they find out they can’t tax a dead person or eat mud. If they don’t get the delta area of Myammar to a functional state there will be a severe grain shortage. And there is another storm headed their way.
The junta doesn’t survive on a mandate from the masses, nor on taxing piss poor peasants. It survives on control, fear and China aid, all three of which can be in jeopardy if they allow foreign influence into their impoverished neck of the woods.
Nowhere in my post did I mention a mandate from the people. I pointed out that they are in a financial crisis and a food shortage crisis. Maybe you meant to respond to another post.
But to respond to your post, China is in the middle of a natural disaster so their assets are tied with their own problems. This is a problem that will get worse over time, not better. Loosing farm land and the people who work the fields is a lose/lose situation for the government as they cannot govern dead people. Another storm is heading their way which will hamper what little rescue efforts are in place.
It was probably completely lost on you but we spent literally months sending forces and building up for that invasion. We didn’t do it over night disguised as some sort of relief mission. Or did you not actually read the thing you quoted but simply decided to rant using that as the start of your mental tape recorder?