This. My wife gets calls because she’s been working clerical for all the time her resume describes. I am a semi-professional who hasn’t made that little for 25 years. Yeah, I’d be willing to take it, but I think I’m dismissed out of hand as someone who will bail at the first offer that paid two or three times as much.
Which, of course, I would, but I haven’t seen any of them lately.
Was paging through a glossy trade magazine. “Oh, I know him. And I worked with him. And I worked for him.” When applying for any fucking job I might possibly qualify, like Greeter at WalMart, it’s nice to be reminded that I have marketable skills, except the market is smaller.
FTR: My days are not spent watching Maury with my thumb up my ass. They are spent either sorting through the waitstaff jobs on Craigslist or working freelance. I do not have time to [del]mine salt[/del] pick oakum to pay my way in 19th century England.
I don’t know how you can say other posters when gallan’s idea was to have people to work in DMV call centers (see: OP) in order to collect unemployment.
Have you ever experienced depression or worked with people affected by it? It’s a downward spiral that many people can’t get out of on their own. Unemployment can wear on people emotionally and requiring people to do this type of work can help improve their mood during that time.
A number of different studies have found that helping others helps improve your disposition. (for example or here)
I use the term “volunteer” because it’s the best description I can think of for “non-profit organization that seeks volunteers in need of help” - and because the organization itself is not the one controlling or specifying the unemployment requirements.
No one is disputing that those out of work need a paying job, but while they don’t have one why not spend a few hours helping others? By the way, this type of work can be really great for networking too. You meet a lot of people that have connections to paying jobs. I was once asked if I wanted to interview at a pharmaceutical company one of the other volunteers worked at while on a build for Habitat for Humanity. I was employed at the time and not really looking to change jobs, but the point remains valid.
In an earlier post, you yourself expressed derision over “being forced to attend the baby care and child health seminars as I don’t have children and would have** preferred some other activity** for those two hour sessions.” (emphasis added)
What other activities are you talking about? Why not spend that time reading to the blind or doing some good for others?
There are plenty of people much worse off than you, me and many of the unemployed. Every been to a pediatric burn center or a state run oncology clinic?
Overall my suggestion is simple and I think workable for most people. Require X amount of hours seeking work, require Y amount of hours volunteering, require Z amount of hours training and x+y+z < ~25hrs.
Yes. I had a sister who eventually killed herself due to depression, my mother spent years of her life being treated for it, and I have a nephew who has been hospitalized several times for it and he’s not yet 25. Yes, I think I know something of what depression can do to people, thank you very much.
No, I do not suffer from it myself, thank Og.
Fine. If you want your taxes to pay for a qualified, licensed professional to evaluate each and every unemployed person to determine which ones are depressed more power to you. However, amateurs blithely decreeing that EVERY unemployed person would benefit from coerced non-paying work to “improve their mood” is BS.
A “volunteer” is someone doing something of their own free will. It doesn’t matter if the nice, non-profit is in charge of your “requirements” or not, if you’re not their of your own choosing YOU ARE NOT A VOLUNTEER. You are coerced, unpaid labor.
Why do you assume I am NOT helping others?
During my past four years of un- and under-employment I have taken care of my disabled spouse, spent two months at the side of my dying mother, run unpaid errands for elderly tenants of my landlord, and engaged in various spontaneous acts of kindness.
Meanwhile, I am scrounging every job I can, from mowing lawns to hanging drywall to picking up discarded pop cans for scrap. When I’m not doing that, I’m looking for more work. Seven days a week.
That LAST thing I need is some busy-body deciding I’m not doing enough with my life and assigning me every MORE work, which will be UNPAID, and trying to make it sound nice by mislabeling this a volunteering!
You want to improve my mood? Get me a PAYING job!
:rolleyes:
Right. Thanks for being condescending. Seriously. The way you talk, you sound like you’re lecturing a 15 year old. I worked for 30 years in corporate America, I understand the concept of “networking”. Do you assume every unemployed person is ignorant? Inexperienced? Incapable of making their own decisions? I don’t think you understand just how condescending your generalizations sound.
If you had said some people would benefit, or some people would find it useful I could get on board but you’re issuing blanket recommendations as if every single unemployed person is exactly the same. You do understand we are as individual and varied as those who are fully employed, yes?
I would have much rather spent that time LOOKING FOR A JOB.
I am best able to take care of others when I am able to take care of myself. Is that really such a hard concept to grasp?
From 9 am to 5 pm (and sometimes longer hours than that) every single day I am either working (if I am lucky) or looking for work. THAT is what it is taking in order for me to piece together what little I have right now. Once every two or three weeks I give myself a day off, usually because I’m exhausted. Bad enough that when I was totally unemployed Public Aid did not count the time I spent advertising my business as “looking for work”, or calling old customers to see if they could use my services as “looking for work”, or several other activities that actually brought me work as “looking for work”, NOW I have a busy-body who thinks what I need is even more stuff to do, and worse yet, WORK THAT IS UNPAID.
Not one of the “looking for work activities” that Public Aid imposed on me brought me even 1 hour of pay. Not one. The whole system is set up on the notion that the unemployed on Public Aid (that is, those past “unemployment benefits”) is a young female mother who didn’t finish high school and has no work experience. Or is a young man who didn’t finish high school. Back in the 1990’s when unemployment was low that might even have been the majority of the chronically unemployed. The problem is, that’s not true anymore. There are millions of people like me who lost good jobs three or four years ago, who have experience, who have education, who are not being hired because we’re “too old” or “over qualified” or our skills, which served us for decades, are now obsolete due to new technology, but we’re far too young to retire early. Even if we wanted to. We do NOT need lectures on how to study for a GED or find daycare for a two year old, which is what we get. Nor do we need someone else giving away our time and labor with nothing left over for us.
Again, if you had said SOME people might benefit from your master plan that would be one thing, but you have this notion everyone can be hammered into your pre-conceived pigeon-hole. I am not the only one who is busting butt to scrape together an existence in this shit economy. The last thing we need is someone imposing yet more crap on us.
Yes, as a matter of fact. Again, you think I am ignorant and inexperienced, why is that? And how does knowing that there are burned babies in an ICU or people suffering from cancer fix my daily problems? Does it pay the light bill? Does it replace the 12 year old tires on my pickup (said pickup being the vehicle I use to haul tools and materials to work sites)? Does it take my spouse to the doctor for treatment when his urological problems are flaring up or he’s having some other problem? Yes, I know there are other people suffering in this world, and I feel sorry for starving children dying in Somalia, but I still have to pay my rent on the first of the month and I don’t always know where that money is coming from. How does knowing others are worse off help me pay the rent?
I tell you what - YOU come work FOR FREE to take care of my disabled relatives, clean my house, tend my garden, do the required paperwork I have to get in to public aid, do the required paperwork for us to keep receiving our current health benefits, do the paperwork for my small business, send out invoices, collect from reluctant customers, fix whatever of my equipment isn’t working this week, run errands for my elderly neighbors, and then, between working and looking for more work, I might have time for your coerced “volunteering”.
Or did you think I just sat on my ass and ate bon-bons while watching Jerry Springer and Maury Povich all day?
Oh, now you’re adding TRAINING to all this? When did that happen?
When was the last time you were unemployed and looking for work? Seriously? Have you ever been in that spot?
Why don’t you take some of that energy and get those charming non-profits to do more to reach out to people - like, for instance, running errands for elderly residents so they don’t have to beg rides from their neighbors?
Look, I’ll be honest - I like the idea of this “training” thing. Unfortunately, I have been told repeatedly that because I have a four-year college degree I do not qualify for ANY job training offered to the unemployed or those on public aid. Yeah, big help that. :rolleyes:
I am sure that kind of money will put us all on easy street. Of course most of it would go for Cobra. Then eat and pay rent. The rest could be used on vacationing abroad. Perhaps Hawaii or Europe? The unemployed sure are lucky.
Forcing the unemployed to work for anyone but their own benefit to retrieve funding that they were forced to pay in strikes me as a bait and switch.
If you start attaching conditions to the money that don’t directly benefit the person, it should be optional to enroll. Requirements to search for jobs seem reasonable, as is letting some of that job search time be diverted into volunteering if they choose. Volunteering and interning without pay can both be incredible networking opportunities. “Volunteering” the unemployed to work seems unethical and is taking advantage of people at a time when they are weak.
You can’t just volunteer people against their will to work. Of course, there are ethical issues with this. There have always been ethical issues with this.
How exactly is it slavery to ask someone to work in exchange for an hourly wage, with the option to say no? Apparently, I’m a slave. I’m forced to come to work just to get a paycheck! And if I stop coming to work, they don’t give me my paycheck! SLAVERY!!!
People are throwing out “slavery” and “workhouses” and I have to think it’s just for shock value, since I don’t believe anyone here has suggested we take their unemployment money AND make them work. All that I’m suggesting is actually enforcing the requirement whereby people have to accept any work they’re offered while collecting unemployment, while implementing a system where offers for employment (or perhaps offers for interviews) are included in your weekly unemployment certification. You can’t collect your unemployment check if you don’t go to those interviews or show up for that job. That’s it. How exactly is that slavery?
Again, I am not talking about you specifically. The world does not revolve around you.
All I’m doing is pointing out that there are advantages to doing this type of work. This is a debate forum, and during a debate you point out facts to support your position. That’s all I’m doing. I never said “Broomstick doesn’t know this but…”
I apologize if you find it offensive or condescending, but all I’m trying to do is support my position. It’s nothing personal and I’m not talking to you specifically. I don’t know anything about you or your situation.
Please see my previous post where I clearly stated “I [don’t] assume that every unemployed person [is] exactly the same. No one program, or change to one, will ever satisfy everyone,” and “what I considered was the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.”
Where do you think the money for those receiving public aid or extended unemployment comes from? Do you think that anyone who can’t find a job should just be given money indefinitely until they find work? Would it really be too much to ask those who are receiving FREE MONEY to do some work for the greater good for eight hours a week? (Please note that I’m capitalizing the term “free money” to correlate to your statement that the work would be UNPAID.)
I addressed this above where I reiterated from a previous post that what I considered was the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people.
My statement was solely in response to our discussion where I stated that there are “others who might be in more need than ourselves,” and you responded by stating that “the unemployed are the ones in need.” I was only pointing out that there are people in more need than the unemployed.
Guess what? If more people volunteered maybe someone could take him to the doctor. There are programs at hospitals that seek volunteers to help with exactly that.
I never said that, I never said anything remotely close to that - It’s a strawman to try and support your position against something I never said or intended.
I don’t know about your state, but in California there is a Training Benefits program where you can go to school, without looking for work & get benefits. I’m in favor of giving people useful options. So yes I think that someone should be able to trade hours looking for work with some type of training to learn a new skill or trade.
Yes I have. In 2008. I was un/underemployed for almost 18 months. During that time: my mother was diagnosed with stage IV cancer (who had no insurance or income and I supported), I was told I was overqualified, I was bested for jobs by individuals who were WAY overqualified, but willing to work for peanuts, I freelanced & worked for minimum wage, I sold items of great personal value to pay the bills. Don’t think for a second that I don’t know what being unemployed is like.
That’s exactly my point. There are a plethora of non-profits that offer those types of services, but just need people to do them. The more people they have the more people they can help.
That really sucks, I envision a program that would allow anyone to get training (or retraining) in other fields that might be more in demand.
How exactly are you forced to come to work? You come in to get a paycheck. You volunteered for the job. No one volunteered you to do the job. Are you being forced against your will to work? No. It is your choice to come in. No one is making that choice for you. It is slavery to volunteer someone for something that they do not choose to do. You choose to do the work yourself. People are not adding shock value to this.
This is exactly what I talked about in my previous post with x+y+z.
There could be a set amount of hours that you are required to do every week, say 25. To start an individual might spend all 25 looking for a job, but once work options become exhausted you can start training/school or volunteer work to fill the gaps.
I wish I had the kind of resources (read: money) to do something like that!
Actually, by program I intended “unemployment program.” I think they should offer (useful) retraining programs for those that might want get into a different or more in demand field.
Again, I have to ask, at what point was it suggested that we show up at these people’s door and drag them off to a job that they don’t want to do? They can decline these job. If they decline, they don’t get a paycheck. Just like if I decline to come to my job, I don’t get a paycheck either.
