I hate to continue the hijack, but that wasn’t a central aspect of the Schlieffen plan, quite the contrary. For instance, Schlieffen planned to ignore such a major objective as Paris in order to keep engaging the French Army. And, to recap, the strategic objective of the Schlieffen plan was to neutralize the weaker enemy before engaging the stronger one.
Are you sure you’re not thinking of Guderian’s variation on the Schlieffen theme?
Democracy is an act of faith, to some degree. A frequently unjustified faith, to be sure, but its all we got. Let us at least pretend our fellow citizens are worthy of our trust. Failing that, we have only our committment to democracy, that the opinioins of morons and idiots is equal to our own. Democracy is not the best form of government, it is simply the most just.
Ickes on Meet the Press today was pretty defiant. I haven’t seen a lot of that guy, but he comes across as one slimy individual.
Did they ask him why he originally voted to strip Michigan and Florida completely of their delegates less than a year ago, and what changed his mind to worry so much about voters rights now? Or why he’s so casual in his concern about a properly informed electorate about the consequences of voting and not voting and having an appropriate slate of candidates so they can indicate their will? Or did he just ooze in and wheedle for a while and ooze out?
He’s incredibly slimy. You know, yesterday Obama had the votes in committee to get a 50-50 split in Michigan. Yes, you heard that right. He could have asked for and gotten 50% of Michigan’s delegates, but in the spirit of party unity, he graciously conceded a much better deal to the Clintons than they deserved.
Okay, that’s the backdrop. Now enter Harold Ickes to fucking COMPLAIN and accuse Obama of hijacking 2 lousy delegate votes — amidst cheers from her planted hecklers, no less — and pissing on any notion of unity. I mean, the slime is of a kind and magnitude that I’ve never seen. And I’ve seen plenty.
There simply is no limit to the tackiness and crudeness of Clinton supporters, with the obvious exclusion of any Dopers. They are slime. Trash. Sewage. And that’s why it makes no difference how you treat them. They are the Brave New World’s Gammas of this campaign. They know only how to bite hands, burn bridges, hiss and spit. Being kind to them is just tossing pearls to pigs.
I think the idiots who were heckling were a small but vocal fringe of her support, and were not doing her any favors. I have to remind myself of that… I don’t think Elvis… er I mean THEY represent the majority, who feel like because they lost the winners have to apologize and suck up to them.
Ickes was a member of the Clinton administration. I think his duties included lining up donors to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom and handling scandals. He’s probably not got much respect even among Democrats… maybe respect for his power, but not much genuine respect as a person.
Yeah, he was asked. He said the situation changed and that everyone was only focused on Feb 5 back then. The best part was when he was asked a question, gave an answer unrelated to the question and Russert said “that wasn’t the question” and Ickes said “that’s the answer”. But to be fair, they all do that sort of thing-- answer the question they wish was asked instead of the one that was asked.
Obama picks up another add-on superdelegate; Gwethalyn Phillips of Maine.
MSNBC is projecting already awarding him 11 delegates out of Puerto Rico, which they’re saying puts his magic number below 50, so I’m wondering where those extra 4-5 delegates came from.
He didn’t answer the question about where his concern for the voters of Florida and Maine was when he was “focused on Feb. 5.” He did know that stripping those states of their delegates would rob the voters of a voice. He just didn’t care.
He’s a slimy little toad.
FOX news is projecting a lopsided Clinton win in PR – something like 67% of the vote. Only 1% of the vote has been counted though. Karl Rove was just on, and he’s saying her win in PR will put her ahead of Obama in the popular vote.
Don’t get too crazy with the namecalling and vitriol, now :eek: . You can’t judge a group based on the way a minority acts. Clintonians are weak and, like a snake fighting a lion, must use venom and generally be more cruel and vicious if victory is to be achieved.
What is sad is the way many Clinton supporters ignore blindingly obvious telltales such as a blasé media fawning over Obama (rare for folks who are mostly immune to politician tricks) , the more educated americans overwhelmingly favor him, the international community favors him, his campaign was a big success and the man himself is clearly smart and eloquent.
A smart, informed Hillary supporter would at the very least have serious doubts about nonsensical arguments thrown around by the Hillary campaign (every vote must count, Mc Cain defeating Obama in the fall, Hillary being an underdog, etc.)
Ah, and Elvis, Pit thread notification for your convenience.Pit thread
Here’s the thing: it’s fun to be rude to unpleasant people, and humans have a wonderful capacity for obliviousness, self-delusion, and especially rationalization when it comes to doing things that are fun. Maybe it really makes no difference because they’re terrible people, but I think if we’re honest with ourselves we have to allow for the very real possibility that we just want them to be beyond redemption so we have license to gloat and speak ill of them.
Any belief or thought process that allows us to impugn the character or motives of other people needs to be held to the strictest scrutiny.
Since when is Rove concerned with any sort of popular vote?
-Joe
Since he and the Republican Party are desperate to face Clinton in November rather than Obama.
I first read “group” as “soup,” and let me tell you that you can, in most cases, judge a soup by its ingredients, and too many of this soup’s ingredients are rotten.
You’d think that Team Hillary might remember Vince Foster for half a second, and that would get them to stop feeding their craziest supporters like this.
Good point. I’d much rather confront a loony who disagrees with me than a reasonable person with contrary views.
I keep reminding myself that the majority of Clinton’s supporters aren’t screeching nutjobs. And I’m glad that things are going well for Obama, so that we aren’t watching his loony followers on YouTube. There have to be some.
The thing is AuntiePam I don’t believe the majority of Clinton supporters are loony. Some of them sure, of course, look around…but I think there is a contingent who simply want her to be president. And when they finally give up, following their leader to a concession and a thorough backing of Obama things will even out. Clinton must know she will do a lot of damage if she contests this all the way to the convention, no?
See, there are folks in my family who whole heartedly aupport Clinton. However, non of them are voracious enough as those who were shoving Obama supporters at the RBC meeting yesterday. They will ALL support Obama come the fall. It’s the real bigots and assholes what are giving a bad rap to the rest of her followers.
Alas, we Obama fans get the last laugh, because they can go suck an egg for all I care as our man walks into the eliptical office January 20th 09’.
Unless they vote the other way, then their opinions are worth only half, or whatever other fraction it takes to keep them from mattering.
Unless you’re using “best” as a synonym merely for “most efficient”, I gotta disagree with you there. A government can provide basic services and still be just. Opinion, though.
If they are *some * opposition now (and they are, as you know), aren’t they worth *some * attention now too? :dubious:
(Psst … this is the wrong forum for egg-sucking, I’m pretty sure)
Rove is wrong again. As CNN reported today, complete with detail of where the votes came from, the only way for Hillary to claim a popular vote win — including Puerto Rico — is to discount votes in some combination or the other, such as caucus states or disputed votes in Michigan. When all the votes are counted, Obama wins the popular vote, which is ironic given Hillary’s “every vote counts” mantra.
Also, Obama gained two new superdelegates today. Hillary zero.