It’s good for up to five days refrigerated, and up to two hours at room temperature. It doesn’t suddenly completely lose potency at that instant. We know that up to two hours after at room temperature it’s still at (or immeasurably close to) full potency. We don’t know how long after that it takes to reach 0 potency (at least, I haven’t seen publicly released details on that). From the reporting I’ve seen, it was left out for two days. The first day, it would almost certainly have had some potency. The second day, it might have lost all of its potency, but we don’t really know. I Am Not A Virologist, but it just seems unlikely to me that it would be 100% ineffective at that point. I certainly don’t think you could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. If someone with expert knowledge says otherwise, I’ll gladly defer to them.
Right but compare that to vaccines you’re basing your “highly probable” it was still effective on.
The delivery mechanism isn’t delicate. The transportation and storage requirements are.
The mRNA delivery mechanism is delicate. That’s why it has to be so cold and can’t be jostled. The shipping is delicate because of that.
Criminal charges don’t require absolute cause, though. If I shoot someone, it’s possible that they’ll still survive, and if I don’t shoot someone, it’s possible that they’ll still die, but if I shoot someone and they die, the courts have no trouble calling that murder.
I think (but IANAL) that all that the court would have to establish would be that the defendant’s actions had a significant chance of causing harm or death, and that harm or death of that sort did in fact occur. And I think both of those points are within the range of what could be established, here.
I’m honestly having difficulty parsing the grammar of that sentence. You also seem to either be misunderstanding or distorting what I meant. I think it’s probable that at least some of the doses had at least some immunostimulant effect on at least some of the recipients. I don’t think it would be possible to prove that no one got any level of increased resistance from the “ruined” vaccines.
But.
I am not an expert. Again, if someone with more expert knowledge (or a cite) comes in and says something like after four hours at room temperature, the mRNA has completely broken down and there’s no detectable levels left, or the “packets” have completely broken down and none of the mRNA is bioavailable, I’ll happily concede.
If the vaccine remains at 100% (or immeasurably close) potency after two hours at room temperature and after five days refrigerated, it just seems really unlikely to me that it would be at 0% potency after being left out overnight.
But, I could be wrong.
The Oxford vaccine can stay in a fridge indefinitely, is what I’m etting at.
Yeah, but he didn’t shoot anyone. He didn’t expose anyone to COVID. Don’t misunderstand me - I absolutely think he should be facing serious criminal charges. IANAL either, but I just can’t see how you could establish legal causality.
From what I’ve read, he’s being charged with “first-degree recklessly endangering safety, adulterating a prescription drug and criminal damage to property.” That seems about right to me.
I agree with this. A murder charge is pretty ridiculous.
This makes sense. Further charges can be added later, if warranted.
My wife and I spoke about this today. I admit, I’m a little uncomfortable getting the vaccine because I am not an early adopter. But I’m going to get it once it’s available to me because I feel as though the benefits outweigh the risks.
It’s not absolute cause, but it is proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecution has to prove that the injury caused the death. There can be complications like intervening events (e.g. doctor makes a serious mistake in the treatment of the victim), but it’s not generally thought of “it could have been a contributing factor” - there has to be proof of causality.
That’s good…but it’s not about how you “feel,” it’s simply that the benefits outweigh the risks, period.
Nobody who’s getting the vaccine now is an early adopter. That’s what the clinical trials were for, and the vaccine passed those trials. Yes, the trials were conducted more quickly than usual, but no less thoroughly: It turns out that you can speed things up somewhat by throwing billions of dollars at them.
Actually, not. We are a small kindergarten with only six Western teachers. The guy is actually a damn good teacher! He gets along better with kindergarten kids than adults, I think, and the kids are too young to be affected by any of his beliefs.
In your case I wondered if this was a school in Japan, in which case my comment might not mean anything.
My own youngest goes to a small private school and my comment wouldn’t apply to any of her teachers either.
But in most US schools, teachers unions can make it hard to fire bad teachers. This isn’t a rant against teachers or teachers unions, as I said I’m in a similar union myself (AFSCME) so I’d be a hypocrite because I benefit from a similar situation. But every now and then, we acknowledge that the same protections we enjoy can be an issue when a coworker is a big problem and they aren’t going anywhere.
I’m glad to hear that the teacher isn’t a problem when it comes to the kids. That’s really all that matters honestly.
Taiwan, actually, but the legal protection would be better in Japan.
Apparently the teacher is a real pain in the ass to deal with for administration but he is a gifted teacher. Unfortunately, he knows it and lacks any sense of modesty and doesn’t hesitate to leverage his special status to push the rules to just millimeters shy of the breaking point. Wearing masks is a mandate which even he can’t evade.
I’ve got as small problem with the thread title. Was he a former employee when he deliberately destroyed the vaccine?
He was fired for the offence. I think the article I saw was worded like the thread title.
Apparently, he thinks the vaccines will mutate people’s DNA (how in hell did he become a pharmacist without understanding chemistry and biology better than this?).
He’s currently getting a divorce and he’s recently taken a gun to work with him twice. From the sound of it, he’s been down wandering through the conspiracy theory wonderland for quite some time.