Well, yes, but that’s the heat. I’m just surprised things escalated to that point to begin with. The underlying POV’s just seem like honest and entirely reasonable philosophical differences, not worth getting worked up about.
But I just today finished up a seven+ week stint as a Federal juror and am currently suffused with the warm glow of a very collegial three-day deliberation process, where very strongly opposed opinions were methodically and gradually brought to consensus, with no one losing their tempers or flying off the handle.
Might have to re-adjust myself to the real world again, I guess ;).
Then why the concern over the victim? If there is no new trial, she will not have to testify and thusly no painful dredging. Polanski gets sentenced for the sexual assault and the fleeing and we all move on with life.
I can understand the desire to defer to the victim’s wishes, but where does that ultimately take us? Every victim of crime has to experience discomfort and pain when the perpetrator is brought to justice, especially if they testify.
A truly repentant perpetrator would realize this and as a sign of contrition, do all they could to get the matter behind the victim. Like manning up, going to trial, getting sentenced, and serving their sentence.
The person responsible for whatever pain that the victim will re-experience is Polanski. He already got a damn good deal regarding what he was charged with. He could have sought out counseling while he served his sentence, and paid for the victim to do the same. It appears he thought he was above the law because of his talent.
At the risk of Godwinizing this (again), it’s not unlike these cases where they find a 80 year old guy who despite thirty years of working in the Ford factory, was a prison guard at a concentration camp. His victims are long dead, and he isn’t a harm to the average citizen at his advanced age. But I certainly feel he needs to pay his debt to society. And of course such a case raises unpleasant memories for the loved ones of those who perished in concentration camps.
The truly contrite recognize the harm they inflict on others and pay their debts in an attempt to regain their humanity. Those who run are anything but.
I hate to give the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs of the world any ammo, but this is precisely the kind of stuff that wingnuts trot out to prove how out of touch Hollywood is from Middle America. You would think people like Landis and Allen would refrain from commenting publicly on this matter, given their own unfortunate histories.
I think what we have here is a unique case. Is Roman Polanski guilty? Of course he is. Is what he did not only reprehensible but also beyond the pale for society? Yes. By all means, prosecute him to maintain an orderly and just social system. He deserves it.
But wait…
I understand what Sampiro is saying (although he is not being as articulate as he could be). It is not that this rape victim will also be on trial (like so many are even today); it is that dredging up this incident from her past serves only to hurt her and now her family/children.
I’m sure there are Dopers who will claim otherwise, but really, there are none of us who could withstand the fishbowl of a media frenzy such as what she (and her kids) will face. If this could happen in another time or with a Press that had a conscience and a sense of human dignity, I would be all for Roman’s ultimate conviction and sentencing. But we live in a time of Glenn Beck (who makes Rush Limbaugh look like a Rhodes Scholar) and Nancy Grace–would you wish either of them on any victim of a notorious crime?
The Hollywood types are not helping matters. They are proving to the Bible Belt (among others, like every day Northern folk and city dwellers) that they truly are a modern Sodom and Gomorrah–and they have given the Family Values crowd fodder for the next decade. Woody Allen is likely jealous of Roman’s “success” with the young lady (token vicious remark). France looks like a complete ass of a country in this as well.
I confess I don’t see when or where Mr Polanski could claim a mental aberration. As a male in power, he took advantage of an opportunity. Oh, that’s so harsh, no? Not really. I don’t say all (or even a majority of) males would act the way he did, but there are too many who do so for me to claim astonishment at his actions. The quaalude mixed with champagne is a nice touch. Perhaps he thought that would help her get in the mood. He is beneath contempt, no matter how talented a film director. I am none too sympathetic with this woman’s poor excuse of a mother, either, but that’s another thread and ancient history to boot.
So, I am of 2 minds about this. I understand the need to convict and sentence him. I also understand and pity this woman whose life will now be (again) irretrievably damaged by his trial etc. It seems to me that in our attempt to punish the perp, we also horribly punish the victim. I see no other way (I’m way too old to hope that the Press will treat her life and loved ones with any kind of respect or dignity).
I am left with a disgust at our culture and society, a feeling which is both useless and irrelevant.
Nitpick: Woody Allen is NOT Soon-Yi’s father, or even her step-father. Her father is Andre Previn. Allen and Mia Farrow were never married. (Sorry, common misconception)
However, other than that, yeah, I’m not surprised. At least in Soon-Yi’s case it was consensual…he didn’t have to drug her up and rape her.
I also can’t help but be reminded of the big uproar when Elia Kazan was given an honorary Oscar years back, a “Lifetime Achievement Award”. Many were furious that someone who had given names to the HUAC would be honored in such a way. And yet, when Polanski was given HIS Oscar, he was given a standing ovation. I’m not saying there’s a connection, but there seems to be a mixed up sense of ethics here. Kazan did a shitty thing, naturally. But if you ask me, raping a child is a hell of a lot worse.
You make it sound like he had an axe in his hands.
John Landis was the director who authorized the scene in the 1982 movie The Twilight Zone that ended in the helicopter accident that took the life of actor Vic Morrow and two Vietnamese children, one of whom was decapitated by the rotor blade (as Morrow was), the other of whom was crushed by the body of the helicopter when it came down. Arguably, Landis must be held responsible for urging the helicopter pilot to fly lower and lower, but he did not cause the pilot to lose control nor could he have foreseen such a horrific result. Landis was tried for involuntary manslaughter and acquitted. But don’t let the facts get in your way.
Could you point me to the posts in which you repeatedly said that? In #35 you said that you’d have prosecuted in '78. However, since you do not address the victim’s change in stance on conviction I would assume, as would any sane person, that you were referring to how things actually went down in '78 and were refuting the imagined accusation that you believe child rape is ok.
Aw, I might could whip some up if I had some lard… lessee hyeah
There are others- it took me literally 15 seconds to find those in a southerners Jodi searched, but no matter. You’ll never see the offense in those comments, and whether you’d find it offensive if somebody implied all Montanans were militia member morons is something I’ve no idea about.
I never called you racist. I insinuated you would not paint with a broad brush when referring to blacks, Jews, etc., as you do with southerners. I stand on that statement.
I have in the past called you a homophobe back when you called me a self involved queen (in a thread where you dropped in to shit on southerners of course) but we let that pass. I DO NOT CALL PEOPLE RACIST WITHOUT DAMNED GOOD REASON. I put it on par with the N word. I have never seen any reason to believe you are racist.
You will not see my point because you don’t like me. This speaks volumes.
I don’t see the offense in them because I didn’t mean them offensively and I stand by them. Your irrational touchiness on the subject, OTOH, is nicely illustrated by your equating me having called your people “insincere” with you calling mine “morons,” as if those are proportional – though as it happens, I wouldn’t give a shit what you thought about Montanans and sure as shit wouldn’t still be trying 18 months later to dishonestly hang on you an opinion that wasn’t yours.
A little intellectual honesty, please. The post is right up there for everyone to read. You didn’t “insinuate I wouldn’t” say something racist; you “wondered why I didn’t” say something racist. The exact quote was “Nice that you work in all of my family and most of my friends into your vitriol; I wonder why you don’t do that with black/Asian/Jewish posters though.”
“Let it pass”? But why? Since you’ve seen fit to bring it up, the thread is here. It’s the one where you embarrassed yourself by fully freaking out over a brand of flour. It’s also the one where you called me a “malcontent mannerless bitch,” a “humorless stupid bitch,” and a “sociopathic piece of bat excrement”. Ironically, one of the few things you didn’t get around to calling me was a homophobe, so thanks for pointing out at this late date that that was intended. (Why on earth wouldn’t I like you?) You also ended up apologizing to me in that thread for your insanely OTT behavior, which makes extra-hilarious that you’d bring it back up, as either an attack on me or a defense of you.
Then it’s funny you’d imply that I was racist, and I don’t mean Funny-Ha-Ha. But then you never CALLED me a racist, right?
I don’t owe it to you to concede your belatedly limited point, though if you bothered to read my posts for content instead of personal offense, you’d know that I basically already have. But after the insults you’ve dealt me in this thread – not to mention the other one, which I had forgotten so thanks for bringing that up again – i don’t owe you shit. The fact that you think I do speaks volumes about YOU.
That was back when I liked you better. As of this writing I regret to inform you that you’re not my best friend anymore and you are officially uninvited to my garden party.
Well it’s been a lovely pile-on but I’m unsubscribing. Ciao.
