Well, yeah. We’re obviously going to be continuing the story from 140 or so years in the future, and we’re never going to see this version of the Foundation or the Cleons again. Next season it’s going to be Salvor, Gaal, some form of corrupted Cleon clones ruling the crumbling remnants of the empire, and an entire new cast.
From Salvor’s “farewell talks” with her adoptive mom and Hugo, I didn’t really get any indications that she would never see them again. Sure, they were all sad looking and tears were shed, but Salvor never outright said that she would be gone for good (I thought it was going to be a 1 to 2 year side mission, honestly), and I wished she had been more forthright with them if she was going to pull the rug out from under them.
I dunno. To me, they felt like “goodbye forever” talks.
Also, based on my vague recollection of the books, there’s nothing more that needs to be done in this timeframe. The Foundation has been founded as an independent political entity, and the Genetic Dynasty has been irreparably damaged. Now let’s see what happens a century and a half in the future.
Agreed. And while it’s not directly related to Lee Pace’s acting, I thought the location added just that extra touch of Brother Day cruelty: the perfect place to tell a botanist that she would never see a garden (well, anything, but particularly a garden) again.
Season finale did everything a season finale should.
Brother Dawn had a literal twist ending. Brothers Day and Dusk recognize the doom of their genetic dynasty.
The robot abandoned its connection to Empire and will take on another appearance.
Gaal and Salvor meet each other by time travelling the old-fashioned way–waiting around. Even ignoring their mysterious luck, it’s not improbable they’d find each other. Salvor knows Gaal’s home world and could find her home town. Gaal of course would go their as well.
Hari is insufferable, but needs to be. His predictions depend on a lack of awareness of the predictions.
Looking forward to the next season.
Okay, wow. I did NOT get this out of that scene, but it totally makes sense. “I am loyal to Empire, always” could be taken as a literally spoken truth misinterpreted. “Just because I call you Empire, doesn’t mean you are the Empire that I am loyal to.” Gonna have to rewatch that part now.
And, yes, I agree with most of you, the D/D/D Genetic Dynasty is, far and away, the most compelling part of the show. Day (Lee Pace) in particular, but Dusk (Terrance Mann) as well are amazing in the roles. I will miss them when they are gone although I wonder…
Is the ‘corrupted’ clone concept the seed for The Mule in this adaptation?
I’m wondering if Gaal’s and Salvor’s mental abilities are going to lead to the Mule somehow.
I only just got to watch the last episode (traveling for the holiday).
Above some noted that there is no indication Demerzel is beholden to the laws of robotics.
But, did we see it in the last episode?
When Demerzel killed brother Dawn she said she was loyal…to the Cleon dynasty. That sounds a lot like the Zeroth law to me. Obviously not beholden to humanity as in the books but still…beholden to a larger concept.
Not to mention the fact that she subsequently seemed to have a serious problem (analogous to a mental breakdown) in dealing with the fact that she had taken this action.
From my reading (decades ago) of the books, Demerzel was certainly capable of violating the First Law, but I don’t think it was necessarily consequence-free. And the scene in the last episode wasn’t just taking an action that would lead to the death of a human as an incidental consequence. It was directly killing one of the Cleons in a very brutal manner.
I wonder if assassinating Zephyr Halima earlier compounded this angst.
My (possibly 'way off the mark) sense is that she’s now aware of the tainted DNA, which makes killing Dawn — a serious violation of the First Law in itself — pointless as well. And since there’s no Cleon dynasty as it’s usually defined to protect anymore, she’s lost her purpose. She may have been preparing to assume a new appearance when she simply lost it.
My wife and I just finished the season and we went in totally unspoiled.
I think I loved that show. I was unsure around episode 3 or 4, but I feel it really got itself on track and more focused as it went. By the time Day walked “the spiral” and Dawn realized he is flawed, I was fully on board.
I desperately want season 2 to come out in 2022. I’m tired of waiting two years between seasons on things and kind of want the new season as soon as possible.
I was absolutely full-blown into this show by the final episodes. I kept telling my wife, “This is great” over and over. One of the better new shows of the year. Very satisfied.
If the TV show had Demerzel following the Three Laws I would think Demerzel would have had a more difficult time with this unless we assume she thinks the greater good is supporting the Cleons.
IS SHE supporting the Cleons? I’m not so sure.
On the way home from the pilgrimage planet, she said exactly what she needed to in order to make Day doubt himself. Telling him that she had a vision, and ruminating on how horrible it would feel not to have one, when she clearly knew he had made up his vision - that was like a precision airstrike (particle beam?) straight to his heart.
Then, when did she kill Dawn? Right when Day started talking about how the Dynasty must bend to avoid breaking.
If she is truly following the three laws plus the zeroth law, she is loyal to HUMANITY, not EMPIRE. For thousands of years, if she believed that the Empire was humanity’s best hope for survival, then serving Humanity would mean serving Empire (while subtly directing it to ensure it continues to be Humanity’s best chance).
But if her mind changed - for example, because the math on Seldon’s predictions checks out and Empire is likely to fall and bring about Humanity’s extinction - suddenly, she would need to work against Empire, even to destroy it. Planting seeds of doubt in Day’s mind, killing Dawn to prevent Empire from making healthy changes, and sowing discord between Day and Dusk all serves this purpose, if that is indeed her purpose now.
I think you’re right - she is over 11,000 years old, and she is wearing out. Maybe an interesting connection to ‘Foundation and Earth’ and R. Daneel Olivaw??
It’s been a long time since I read the Foundation books. I didn’t realize Demerzel and Daneel were the same entity. Obvious connection. My bad.
The show is back for a second season. I watched episode 1 last night.
I am going to see if I can find a longer recap of the events of Season 1; the 2 minute recap at the start of the episode was not enough after a 1.5 year break.
I have not yet watched it, but here is the one I’m going to use:
So anyone watching this season?
I’m pretty pleased with all storylines so far. But dang that’s not life flashing, it’s a leisure paced recap of the highlights!
I want to see season 2 but there was so much time between seasons I wanted to re-watch season 1 and, for no reason I can discern, I haven’t been in the mood to watch it again. I’m sure I’ll do it eventually.
Yes, and enjoying it as well. It’s not the Foundation that Asimov wrote, but it’s worth watching. And I’m not sure you need to re-watch season 1 to enjoy season 2.
And yes, that was a very leisurely “life flashing before his eyes,” but filled in a lot of interesting back story.
Did they really bring him back to life just to kill him off again? Not sure that’s going to stick.