I did a search and it appears that I’m the first to post about this. Listening to NPR today I heard that France is banning psychological abuse.
Some links about the story (I’m just copying these from Google news). Telegraph.co.uk Fox The Moderate Voice
I find this interesting because, while I think that there should be some protection against psychological abuse, like the critics I think that this will be very hard to enforce. And I wonder, what percentage of the time will somebody have to be abusive? A single outburst? 50%? How do they measure these things? If a group of witnesses sees one spouse verbally or psychologically abuse their partner, then maybe. But if it’s a he said she said thing I don’t think there will be any consistency and rulings will be arbitrary.
So overall I don’t like this as it could cause legal problems for people just from an accusation.
It sounds to me like, “hey, let’s make it so everyone breaks the law but we don’t really enforce it except when we want to, and then you’re fucked. Don’t worry though, we won’t abuse our new power.”
I wonder if it’s a shot at Islam.
“Honey, you know you should wear your burka.”
“Yes Dear, I’ll go put it on.” :: Door crashes in::
“Freeze! Nobody move! We’re the Spouse Psychological Abuse Team!” (SPAT)
That describes a lot of the laws here in the US.
“I know you were going the posted speed limit, but you slowed down traffic which was going faster than that, here’s your ticket.”
“I don’t care if everybody else was speeding, the limit is 55 and that’s what you’re supposed to be going, here’s your ticket.”
At first this sounded bad, but “SPAT” is an excellent name for a team that targets interspousal psychological abuse, and so anything that leads to the creation of this team should be encouraged.
More importantly, I’d like to know of a place where that’s possible if you are in the right most lane, or have not gotten to a good place for a pullover if you’re on a 2 lane road. I can see it happening though if you are in the left hand lane and are speed matching the car to the right of you so no one can pass.
I believe this actually happened in California (getting a ticket for blocking traffic due to obeying the posted speed limit), and the court decision set the precedent that you shouldn’t be ticketed for obeying the speed limit.
Anyway, I heard that if you’re slowing down traffic by going the speed limit you could get a ticket, but maybe the court case that **Dahnlor **mentioned changed that. At any rate since it’s hard for me to find a site, I’ll withdraw my remarks in the hope that this thread can move back on track and we can talk about the French law. Thank you.
In this example I’d guess that the “blocking traffic” law is the relevant law for this thread. It was too broadly interpreted by the cop, and wasted the court’s time. I’d bet though, the law would come in very useful when a highway temporarily goes to one lane and the asshole up front decides it would be funny to make everyone go 55 for the next five miles.
Since psychological harm damages the body just as other illegal forms of abuse do, I don’t see why domestic violence enacted via insults/degradation should get a pass. I first heard about this legislation in France a couple of months ago and I am quite proud of them for recognizing psychological abuse for the crime that it is.
Those articles that were linked to were universally stupid in trying to hype up the “creeping specter of the government” angle to this legislation. This legislation is targeted at abusive relationships and the effects of these relationships on the victim can be reliably measured. It simply does not matter whether the abuser used punching, threats or a never-ending stream of degradation to warp the victim’s self-image, self-esteem, to increase their anxiety, to isolate them socially, and cause them to contemplate suicide.
This legislation is not targeted at the occasional friction and normative levels of aggression that occurs in relationships. Everyday millions of couples insult each other in anger, and just as many may slap, push, shove, or punch their significant other. These acts rarely draw attention from authorities and are rarely repeated. It’s silly to make this leap, but that’s what all these articles do to make this legislation into something it isn’t.
In what way can it be measured? If I’m a police officer called out to a domestic abuse situation I can see a black eye, a busted lip, or a welt forming on an arm but how am I supposed to measure psychological abuse?
Actually not. There is a human right to be free of physical violence, but there is not human right which guarantees that everyone must act in a way that makes you feel good. Emotional states such as anxiety, social isolation, and low self esteem are things that happen to most people at some point in their lives. Having the government step in to regulate interactions between people so as to prevent such emotions from existing is neither desirable nor workable. It’s not desirable because freedom is a good thing, and major curtailments of freedom always decrease happiness. It’s not workable for many reasons. For example, many people may feel anxiety if the government intrudes into their private lives. They may feel low self esteem if the government treats them like babies. They may feel social isolation if nanny-state nonsense cuts down on social life.
My point addressed the measurement of the long-term effects of abuse. These effects, once again, can be reliably and accurately measured.
Your quote addresses the detection of the criminal activity. There are many avenues by which criminal activity can come to the attention of law enforcement. Off the top of my head, an ongoing pattern of psychological abuse may be reported to the police by the victim’s family, friends, psychologist, co-workers, etc.
So, a person presents themselves to some health care professional and measures positive for depression and low self-esteem. They complain continually to their mom that they feel worthless because of their partner’s inconsiderate behaviour. Arrest their partner?
What if the person with the depression and low self esteem is ‘the problem’, not their partner? What if the partner also suffers from low self esteem and depression, and blames the other? Arrest them both?
The notion that the emotional states between partners can be “reliably and accurately measured” so as to put the blame on one partner strikes me as more than a trifle optimistic, and more than a trifle out of step with reality.
There is plenty of evidence that long-term psychological abuse causes physical damage.
The emotional states you are describing are just that, states, and temporary.
The law is not targeting temporary responses to peoples’ interactions. The law is targeting psychological abuse which is a long-term pattern of degradation commited by an abuser toward their victim.
This is not a nanny state law and is absolutely no different from the domestic violence laws most people support today.
Listening briefly to a French lawyer being interviewed, she said that the law is there because psychological abuse doesn’t leave physical scars.
OK, one spouse goes to the authorities to complain about the other, or friends or family do the complaining. How do you determine if the accusations are true or not?
Him: Happy birthday honey!
Her: :dubious: You…got me a new vacuum cleaner and some dusting rags for my birthday?
Him: Yup! AND I signed you up for a cooking class!
Her: You utter JERK! :mad:
Him: Urk! Verbal abuse! My spleen!!!
