Free will, Christianity and The Law

[rwjefferson]

@Steve MB

Er, no. The Biblical injunctions on this point are clearly qualified to cover only government action within its legitimate sphere (e.g. “render undo Caesar that which is Caesar’s” clearly implies that some things are not Caesar’s are are not to be conceded to him).

The conclusion is exactly right.

The government only creates moral confusion when it prosecutes vices (sins that are offenses against God) that are not crimes (offenses against Man).

The full quote is “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s; render unto God that which is God.” This is separation of Church and State. This is truly the Christian value that gave birth to our Country. This is the Christian value that the Religious Right would deny.

Peace and Liberty

rwj

[Steve_MB]

@rwjefferson

The conclusion is exactly right.

The government only creates moral confusion when it prosecutes vices (sins that are offenses against God) that are not crimes (offenses against Man).

The full quote is “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s; render unto God that which is God.” This is separation of Church and State. This is truly the Christian value that gave birth to our Country. This is the Christian value that the Religious Right would deny.

Indeed. If Christians had accepted an interpretation of Scripture that told them to “obey the government”, Christianity would have died out – the Romans wouldn’t have had to throw them to the lions; they would have simply renounced the faith when officially asked to do so.

[Smartass]

So far, my favorite is the one where you can’t really take away free will. I’m thinking back to when we had slavery in my part of the country. After all, I could beat you bloody and yet you would still be free to choose whether or not to pick the cotton. When I think of it that way, it seems almost like a harmless prank.

And of course, we have to bring up faith: God has gifted you with this magnificent brain and now insists that you not use it (hmm, suddenly makes me think of the masturbation thread).

What gets lost in the shuffle is that reasonable people (whatever that might be) can disagree about moral distinctions. The question about when life begins is a perfect example. For that reason, we should be very careful about what moral principles we choose to enshrine in law. Even though our Founding Fathers were predominantly Christian, they chose not to enshrine their religious beliefs into law because they were still pretty raw from having that tactic used against them.

As is always the case, the tyranny of the majority will seem perfectly reasonable to you–if you are a member of the majority.

-VM

[Mr.Duality]

@Smartass

So far, my favorite is the one where you can’t really take away free will. I’m thinking back to when we had slavery in my part of the country. After all, I could beat you bloody and yet you would still be free to choose whether or not to pick the cotton. When I think of it that way, it seems almost like a harmless prank.

And of course, we have to bring up faith: God has gifted you with this magnificent brain and now insists that you not use it (hmm, suddenly makes me think of the masturbation thread).

What gets lost in the shuffle is that reasonable people (whatever that might be) can disagree about moral distinctions. The question about when life begins is a perfect example. For that reason, we should be very careful about what moral principles we choose to enshrine in law. Even though our Founding Fathers were predominantly Christian, they chose not to enshrine their religious beliefs into law because they were still pretty raw from having that tactic used against them.

As is always the case, the tyranny of the majority will seem perfectly reasonable to you–if you are a member of the majority.

-VM

And that, my friends, just about says it all.

Hope most of you will forgive me for not responding to Apos. I just don’t feel like indulging anyone who doesn’t “get” the concept- or perhaps is feigning ignorance.

[Smartass]

@Mr. Duality

And that, my friends, just about says it all.

Thanks, Dual-man. That’s one of the best compliments I have received.

-VM

[rwjefferson]

@Steve MB

Indeed. If Christians had accepted an interpretation of Scripture that told them to “obey the government”, Christianity would have died out – the Romans wouldn’t have had to throw them to the lions; they would have simply renounced the faith when officially asked to do so.

Sorry, I’m slow. I could not follow your interpretation.

A Law that violates the rights of People is not in Caesar’s Domain. I did not say “render unto Ceasar, that which he usurps from God”.

rwjefferson
Peace through Liberty