[[You confuse me though with this statement:
“I don’t recall any reputable “renegade” Masons reporting that they had major crime sprees made with the annulment of their members.”
Well gee…if they took an oath to CONCEAL the crimes, why pray tell would you expect to receive a “report”? Hmmmm… ]] C3
We all know how easily you get confused, C3, especially since you rarely have any sincere interest in getting anything right in the first place, but perhaps, just perhaps, they key lies in Tom’s use of the word “renegade” – you know, someone who reneges on the deal and spills the beans. There have been several such Masons who have gone on the reveal the “dark secrets” of the Scottish Rite.
I actually did a research paper on Masonry in high school and you ouldn’t believe the amount of stuff that people believe about them. My paper is specifically about their effect on the revolutionary war, although I do talk about the legends of their origin. If you would like I could email you a copy of it and maybe it would answer some of your questions.
As recent as 1996 the RC church showed its displeasure of its members being masons. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of the Lincoln Diocese excommunicated over 100 people for belonging to organizations that the church did not approve of–mostly pro-choice organizations but the bishop threw in masons as well in his edict.
“Nuts!”
Gen A.C. McAuliffe
“The general’s nuts.”
unknown 101st AB grunt
Most of the men in my family over the past 4 generations are Masons and Shriners and many of the women Eastern Stars. In response to my questions, the members have told me pretty much what’s been said above (founded around 14thC as craft guild, opened to non-artisans, Catholic Church down on it because you can’t tell the confessor what was done in the lodge unless he is also a Mason, etc.) I know Christian Fundamentalists who have a tremendous problem with the fact that Masonry does not require belief in or allegiance to Jesus. They have religious elements in their rituals but they talk only about The Big Guy, not His Son. The Catholic Church has the Knights of Columbus as a secret society for good Catholic men.
I also know you have to be a “whole” and free man. Apparently, you are checked to be sure you have all your parts and you must aver that you are not a slave. (Who does the checking? That I don’t know but you do need all fingers and toes and you can’t be “wounded in the stones.” No kidding.)
What I found MOST interesting is the degree to which almost all sorority and fraternity initation rituals are clearly derived from the Masonic initiation ritual. A speaker came to our PanHellenic conference when I was in college and read parts of it to us. The whole “initiate seeks to enter the group, guide/protector helping and doorman hindering access, learning certain words to pass certain thresholds, knocking on the door and requesting admittance” gig seems to have been modelled on Masonic ritual. I’ll tell ya: it felt a little odd to be hearing someone else’s secret stuff, like maybe he shouldn’t have been telling us this, but I don’t suppose it did any harm in the long run.
Re: crime - Maybe the questioner was thinking of Italy’s …Grand Lodge #4 or something like that? There was a Lodge in Italy in fairly modern times (post-WWII, I believe) that was very corrupt and to which most of the movers and shakers belonged. The complaint was that you couldn’t get a government contract or win a court case unless you were in with the in crowd. I don’t know what came of that (was it disbanded, were people arrested, what?) but I do know it was perceived as a shame upon Masonry by honest men.
Xgemina:
For better or for worse, one cannot use Bishop Bruskewitz as an example of Catholic teaching. He has been making up his own rules as he goes along for a while. The RCC modified its position on FreeMasons back in 1974. There have been Masonic Lodges that participated in attacks on the RC church and Catholics are forbidden to join those. However, general membership for non-clergy is not prohibited. Brusky strikes again!
Tom~
My apologies tomndebb. The way I read the news article sounded as if church policy forbid membership in the masons, but was usually overlooked.
ps you’re right that “dogface” is the correct term in history to go with Gen McAuliffe’s quote, but I was a modern “GI” so I used my term to demonstrate that we still think Generals are “nuts.”
“Nuts!”
Gen A.C. McAuliffe
“The general’s nuts.”
unknown 101st AB grunt