Heh, interesting way to put it, but it also rings very true. God knows those little brown women can’t be trusted to liberate themselves. Let’s not worry their hidden little heads about it, heh ? 
Yeah… do get back to me when you hear about a stoning in France.
Slam dunk in one, set and checkmate.
Iran was the first country to outlaw the veil, in 1936. However the enforcement of this was brutal and heavy-handed, sparking enormous outrage. When opposition to the Shah started seriously building in the 1970’s, it thus became a symbol of authoritarian abuse and young college women took to veiling themselves as political protest.
Tom Tildrum’s quote of this being “paternalism fighting paternalism” is quite apropos. I’m not a fan of veiling either, but these sorts of legislation are ridiculous and as the Iranian example demonstrates, can be self-defeating as well.
One of the things that is fascinating about the overthrow of the Shah is how progressive liberal socialists and conservative theocrats united in the purpose - then the theocrats managed to grab power and shoved their compatriots in arms under the bus. The enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend.
Back in England, I ended up as friends with various members of the Iranian Communist Party. They always talked about how they felt Iran was a tragedy and had it been treated correctly after the revolution, the whole history of the region could have been very different. My response to them was that, however unfortunate it was, at that time groups with “Communist” in their names weren’t going to get a very sympathetic hearing from the West, however moderate their policies in fact were…
Yeah, but… I can think of a certain number of religious practices that the state doesn’t tolerate: genital mutilation, ritual drug use, Christian Science healing in some cases, etc. It’s all a gray area, quite frankly.
And France has different views from the United States on the question of church and state. Where the U.S. constitution proclaims that the government shall not interfere with religion, in France it’s somewhat the reverse – religion shall not interfere with government. In what the state marks out as its realm, secularism is a rule with few qualifiers. The first sentence of the first article of the French constitution in fact says, “La France est une République indivisible, laïque, démocratique et sociale.”
Difference of emphasis rather than substance, maybe. But it’s a distinction nonetheless.
Here?
If someone looks at me funny I can file a lawsuit. That doesn’t mean it has merit.
You don’t think…
…could be argued to be in conflict with this practice and supersede the First Amendment?
I think it’s pretty clear that the bans against polygamy are a clear example of laws which contradict that statement.
The Declaration of Independence isn’t a legal document. It’s a philosophical one. The freedoms in the preamble are not guaranteed as they stand.
The DoI can in no way “supersede” the Constitution.
Thumbs up.
Doesn’t this make it just that more likely that these women who normally wear burqas – by their own wills or not – will not leave their homes? While some may be willing to adopt the niqab (?), others may not. I’m guessing that alot will just be forbidden to go out in public, or simply choose not to.
I’m trying to imagine the exact wording of such a law. How does one legally define what a burqa is, and how much of a change to it must you make before it is no longer a burqua? X% of the face may not be covered? Can you wear a hat with a flap that you can fling over your face? Could a woman wear a really droopy sombrero and not violate the law? Certainly it would be ridiculous to try and outlaw long flowing skirts or long, loose sleeves and gloves to cover the hands.
Outlaw the burqa and something else will take its place.
They’re not trying to cure the disease - they’re trying to cure the symptom.
“Free” is not the word I think of when seeing a woman in burka. Or rather, not seeing a woman in burka. No wait, *not seeing a woman *in burka.
Does the law cover a man wearing it?
Of course you people know they are completely naked under the burqa. It is actually very liberating.
One of my neighbors wears a burka.
And stiletto heels.
In the US, we’d have to make an exemption for Halloween. Typical kid’s ghost costume = white burka.
Did anyone read the full article. It’s not just the French:
Hell, I practically wore a burqa when I was waiting for the bus this past winter.
And yet, you cannot FORCE freedom on someone. They need to take it on their own. That’s not freedom. You’re merely trading one form of tyranny for another.
begbert2, that’s my point. Ban the burqa? Fine, something else will take its place.