Actually, jerkoff, it’s even simpler than that. Actually jerkoff isn’t harsh enough. From now on I am going to call you Scientologist.
Actually, Scientologist, it’s even simpler than that. If the French government ‘Dissolves’ Scientology in France then that will be persecution and will be easy to prove, if they don’t then they aren’t. As it’s the subject of the thread we don’t need to prove anything, only your Thetan ridden brain would think so.
I think that just tacking the name “Oxford” to your supposed personality test shows an agenda of fraud. Here’s the wiki cite.
Sheesh. SOME of you should try taking the test of loaded questions yourselves. Here’s one: “Do you often sing or whistle just for the fun of it?”
Answer Yes, No, or Maybe and the Scientology tester will tell you that Scientology can help with that. WOW! :rolleyes:
Operation Snow White also shows how criminal they are. Since this is near the start of the cult, why not continue to be suspicious?
As far as what the low members or “pre-clears” put up with here’s one and another. (Lots of legal lawsuits for this bunch…)
Yeah, I took their test. I really confused the testing girl when she talked about how it was revolutionary and how no other group had ever come up with such a thing. How she described it to me was boilerplate overcome your illusions stuff. So she challenged me to come up with a book before Dianetics that talked about overcoming these illusions and such and I rattled off some list of ancient texts dealing with such things like the Bhagavad Gita. It was funny to see her reaction, she wasn’t prepared for it.
It was kind of like the born again Christian who was asking me if I knew about Jesus and was talking about how all his super human qualities were pretty cool like resurrection and turning water into wine and stuff. I told her, “I think that washing lepers feet was pretty cool.”, she immediately shut up and I’ve never seen a Missionary leave my presence faster. 
Ah, some other friends of mine took the test too! They all said they were “told” that the test was designed at Oxford University. Were you told that too?
Since so many have been given work visas to spread their word about L. Ron Hubbard to other countries, can I get a work visa to go to other countries to spread thought, reason and atheism? It seems it would be only fair… 
Sadly, the same thing we say to every other religion : no-go in classrooms, nor for public officials exercizing their public function. Damn shame, I know. I’m all for mayors surrounded with half-naked Samba girls myself. Would give civil weddings that ceremonial, funloving touch they lack. Also, boobies. Marriages lack boobies, don’t you think ?
ETA : BTW, my posts are now considered a religion. I have one adherent besides me (my SO, who said, and I quote, “yeah, sure. Get me a Coke, will you ?”). Any moderating action will from this point onwards be considered an attack on freedom of creed, and taken to the courts as such.
Only if you can get a gnarly keytar jingle to go along with your teevee campaign for The God Delusion.
This happy lady doesn’t look so quote-unquote “harmed” by Scientology!!
I have absolutely no idea. Never heard about it myself (but then, I’m not really much of a news addict). I’ll look into it, see what I can find.
No, I don’t remember that part. They might’ve. 
They camp Times Square sometimes. I think I just did it for the lulz really.
I’m thinkin’ somthing in F#minor, pop-blues:
“The God Delusion / More True than Fusion
More fair to all of us / Move away from Leviticus!” 
I LOVE that old commercial you posted. See the subject change?
"I was a complete failure in relationships. I kept thinking ‘what’s wrong with me?’
“The book gave me answers, now I feel great about myself!”
That’s up there with, “My life was in ruins, I ate Ice cream. Now I’m so sure of myself!”
What an idiot. You still do not get it. If they are dissolved for committing common crimes it is not religious persecution. You have to prove the motivation was religious and it is not so you cannot.
You felt guilty for providing a service? Aw shucks, what a sweetie your are…given the unstated fact that she was surely of legal age and consented. Right? :dubious:
'cause you are a nutter and we’re talking about them. Granted, yours is a different kind crazy…thus my offer. Hardly a stretch if you think about it. Wait! It’s just plain wrong to say “think” and “you” in the same sentence.
Phew. Caught that one in the nick of time.
Thanks. Again with the kindness. But no, I’m into pussy myself if that’s alright by you and your beliefs – be sad if it wasn’t, because it’d be quite the deal breaker in my most generous and honest proposal.
Meanwhile, pull my finger, would ya’? Attaboy! Thanx.
Typo it is – I go with the “s” at the end for the sake of expediency. Appreciate it anyway.
Your post led me to that “multi-quote” gizmo for the first time. It lights-up red and does nothing even if I click on the usual “quote” button after that.
Curious, how does it work? Normally, I just break the quotes I’m responding to, and, if for instance, as in this post replying to multiple posters, I just C&P from a new tab. Any magic I’m missing?
On topic. This whole “debate” is pointless. Sailor, Maeglin and Miller have made impeccable arguments from oh…page one. Since then, it’s just a pissing contest over a dead equine.
Once more with feeling: present evidence that the COS is being persecuted for their beliefs and not their crimes or else, STFU.
What’s the equivalent of a ball-gag for a keyboard? Because if there isn’t one, I might have found yet another business opportunity. Handmade, leather BDSM keyboards anyone?
Well, I’ve looked. And I found a few news articles warning about “the rise of Satanism in France”. I found a few Satanist articles explaining why people shouldn’t freak out (from both the Levey brand, and the generic brand of Satanism). I found a *lot *of contradicting articles defining Satanism. What I didn’t find, was a law banning Satanism altogether.
Satanist cults didn’t figure in the 1996 list of dangerous sects the Times article mentions (the list itself can be found here. The amusing thing is, while members of the cults listed there protested, there were also people protesting that major religions weren’t present in the list. So, we go both ways :p). Do note that the list itself isn’t a list of “forbidden” cults either, merely a list of cults that our Parliament has deemed needed to be watched more closely, in case their practices and rituals crossed the line into criminality.
We do, however, have a recent (2001) law against “abuse of known ignorance and weakness”. Basically, if the prosecution can prove that you took advantage of somebody’s weakness (weak persons being defined as : minors, pregnant women, people dealing with mental or physical illness/handicap, old people, or infirms (i.e. blind/deaf/mute)) and that you knew about those factors when you took advantage of them, you’re going down for 3 years and/or 375.000 euros. No exceptions. 5 years and 750.000 if it can be proven your organisation specifically targets the weak, infirms etc… with the aim of extorsion and maintaining said weakness for your own ends.
The law was first used against a Christian sect - the Néo-Phare (lit : New Lighthouse), which apparently boiled down to some nut claiming he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and the world was going to end on October 24, 2002 (anybody notice that ?). And the following suicide or murder/suicide of his 20+ parishioners. Nope, *he *didn’t off himself, why do you ask ?
Point is : despite what Kimmy states, French anti-religious laws aren’t designed to “harass the outgroup”, nor do they favor established religions. We don’t give a fuck which God is yours, as long as it doesn’t disrupt established society. We’re atheists at heart or, at least, at State.
Thus, basically, we don’t have any laws against any specific religion (and, as a policy, we neither condemn, nor recognize them), but we do have laws vague/extensive enough to go against any “wizard” looks funny to the State, that is to say, to the majority of we, the people. Or, in other words, people are 100% allowed to join your religion to save their physical or mental selves, but you can’t go around telling people your religion is going to heal them in any way, as far as this world is concerned.
Seems about right to this godless heathen.
Then why were the Jehovah’s Witnesses treated differently from other religious organizations for tax purposes, as I discussed here?
That post will also provide evidence of discriminatory treatment on the basis of religious group membership, rather than individual criminality. It is about the JW’s, however, it is indicative of the forms the French abridgment of religious liberties take.
RedFury I’ve just never been so aware of your astounding cleverness until just now. ;p
You don’t even know what I believe.
I don’t know what it is, but I’m against it!
I know it’s settled just like everything you’ve ever argued. It must be frustrating to be you having every argument you ever get in miraculously being settled on the opinion you hold and all those idiots out there challenging your ever so prescient rightness.
Again it’s up to the state of France to prove that they are criminals, not for me to prove that they are not.
Nobody asked you (or them) to prove they’re not. The challenge is to prove they’re being targeted because they believe in Xenu’s volcano.
Because the legal definition of “cultual associations” is very strict, and JW’s don’t fulfill those criterions. It’s as simple as that - no specific action against the JWs.
The State, rightly or wrongly, has decreed that JW’s injunction for its members not to accept blood transfusions & vaccinations (the latter being compulsory in France), nor to to take part in military service (at the time also compulsory) were disruptions of public order, denying them the right to claim religious tax privileges granted to non-profit cultual associations .
However, there’s absolutely no prohibition against distributing JW material, or holding JW ceremonies etc…
…just punishment for their conscientious objections.
You’re kidding, right? Either you don’t know much about Scientology or you know too much. Scientologists are in it (everything) for the long haul. They make their Sea Org people sign Billion Year contracts. They believe in reincarnation, which is convenient, and very smart of Hubbard, since once you’ve paid through the ass to get rid of your current body thetans, then you have to keep paying to get rid of the body thetans of all your past lives. How many body thetans? How many past lives? How much money do you have?
Scientology learned very early that they need to pay attention to the Internet, ever since the founding of the Usenet newsgroup alt.religion.scientology in 1991 brought critics together for the first time in a shared environment. The Scienos attacked ars, tried to get it removed from Usenet, and boy howdy, was that a mistake. You do NOT fuck with the Internet, especially in those days, when it was lot smaller and people felt more protective of their rights. (I’ve been on the net since 1989 and was a member of ars, so I experienced it first hand)
ars’s popularity exploded, publicity abounded, and that was it. Whack-a-Mole Critics from then on. I don’t have a cite and I can’t find it, but I remember reading people’s posts about being inside the cult before they left, and how they zeroed in on the internet. They probably have a whole division of high-level Sea Ogres working full-time, trawling, looking for places to counteract criticism. They’d have to be high level, even if not necessarily Sea Org, simply because they would constantly be seeing secrets posted, and you don’t put a grunt on an assignment where they’ll see things that they haven’t paid for yet.
The Straight Dope has been on Scientology’s radar at least since Cecil’s column from May 1989. Considering TSD’s popularity, they almost certainly would have assigned a group to work the message board. Kimmy’s one of them, and we should feel important, since he has permission to utter the word Xenu that means he’s a top dog.
Sometimes paranoia is rooted in reality, and the more you learn about Scientology, the more you realize that that’s their stock in trade. Do things so crazy that, if the recipient tells someone else, it’ll make THEM sound crazy. Paulette Cooper is a spectacular example (but far from the only one). People thought she was utterly nuts, dangerous too. If the FBI hadn’t found those files detailing Operation Freakout, no one would have ever believed her, because what they were trying to do to her was just so fucking insane.
So, basically, yes, they would plant people here for the long term. I think I know who they are too (besides Kimmy). waves