I get it; it’s a fraudulent money-making scheme masquerading as a religion. But so are all the others. Who gives a shit? What do Scientologists do that’s all that worse than what Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Hindus do? Why is so much ire being directed at Scientology?
Basically? For the longest time, if you said one word about them on the internet, you would get hounded by Scientology trolls. They’d hunt you down in real life, slam you to your boss, and so on.
Also there is something more fundamentally repellent about a “religion” that was founded for the primary purpose of making money rather than one that at least has its roots in genuine belief.
Add in the fact that it is so new, and thus doesn’t have the generations of acceptance behind it, and you get more vocal opposition. Mormons face the same thing (although much more mildly because they don’t seem to be primarily a brainwashing/money stealing racket).
I’ve lived within a block of several of their churches. I wasn’t fixated on them, but they sure were interested in me. I am always surprised by their lack of subtlety. And, having ‘read’ some of their literature (including Narc-Anon workbooks – mostly gobbledygook), I do wonder what kind of mindset someone has to be in to find this shit appealing.
Really, though, no encounter I’ve had with them compares to those of young actors who have moved to LA or Hollywood (well… I guess I just answered my own question. What kind of mindset? Desperate, lonely and looking for contacts).
Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and, so far as I know, Hindus, Buddhist, etc. are more than happy to tell you about their religion. I don’t have to become a Muslim to find out about what they believe and I have access to their holy texts and other writings. This information is freely available, or, at the very least, more easily available to me.
What do Scientologist believe? I’ve visited their website but I’m still not quite sure what they’re all about. A lot of what I’ve heard about Scientology beliefs comes from disgruntled former members. I’ve never heard a Scientologist mention Xenu for example. Then there are of course the dirty tricks the Church of Scientology uses. Creating “secular” companies to push Scientology, their bashing of psychiatry, etc.
In some ways Scientology reminds me of the Cult of Isis (cult in this case is not a pejorative). You pay your money/time and only then are you able to ascend the structure and learn the secrets.
Odesio
That’s actually not true as Abrahamic faiths are focused very much on the life lived within the path of the religion, so to know what they believe and why you really need to be walking the path. I think the same is true of Buddhism. Religion is a life lived as opposed to philosophy which is a set of beliefs.
Putting aside the claim that all religions are fraudulent money-making schemes, a few things:
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“Fair Game”, namely the express written doctrine that any “suppresive” forces can be dealt with without regard to ethics. E-Sabbath alludes to this. There’s a great little BBC documentary called “Scientology and Me” where you see the Beeb reporter harrassed until he loses his mind.
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They will not make their core beliefs public. To learn said beliefs, you need to pay (IIRC) upwards of $100,000. Supposedly, when you get here, you learn that you feel bad because some alien threw some spirits in a volcano and they’re living inside you, making you pissy. If a “religion” won’t try and attract converts with it’s actual philosophy, then it isn’t a religion. In fact, in a lot of Europe, it isn’t even classified as a religion as it is a pay-to-play enterprise.
I’m sure others will chime in—I’d love to go on for an hour, but am at work. If you’re really curious, this guy has spent a lot of his life trying to expose the CoS and even the Wiki page reads like a condemnation. It’s a truly vile organization.
In sum, I think the better question is “What does Scientology do to actually benefit society?” While we could harp on the myriad dysfunctions in Christianity, Islam, and Judiasm, these religions all do in fact do some good, charitable work. I’m not sure if Scientology does any. If they do, it’s intensely overshadowed by the ills it perpetrates.
South Park did it.
Other than that, people are bothered by Scientology’s vulgarity: they’re more transparently about money than most religious groups, and the church is very litigious and aggressive. Regardless of their teachings, there’s not much to like.
Then there are the teachings, which are flat-out silly (it’s more apparent because they’re not ingrained in our culture). And the alleged fact that their founder was open about starting a religion for money.
A recent thread about this: “Has the Scientology hate gone too far?” from January.
“Fraud” is a pretty specific term. Among other things, it requires that a knowingly false statement of current or past material fact be made, with an intent to deceive and consequent reliance by and harm to the one deceived. The significant number of active Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Christian clergy do not, IME, believe that they are making false representations of fact with the intent of mulcting their flocks out of money. And a handful of jackass televangelists aside, I don’t see a lot of super-rich clergy running around, or lavish compounds wherein the leadership and top dogs regale themselves. The churches or synagagoues? They’re nice edifices, but viewed as held in trust as a form of cultural patrimony; no one really thinks the Pope or the Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem is grating the gold chalices down to top his cappuccino. And a lot of money that those mainstream religions “make” is promptly distributed to efforts to educate (secularly and religiously) both members of the flock and the general public or otherwise confer tangible benefit on the community. Take a look at one of the many “Jewish Hospitals of [INSERT CITY],” or some inner city Catholic school educating scads of non-Catholic minority kids failed by the public schools. Is that “making money?” Parishoners can choose to donate to support this, or not. When they drift away, unless it’s a fairly fringey and minor variant of the sect, there is no fervent attempt at mind control, reeling back in, banishment, shunning, cutting off contact (maybe some ultra-Orthodox or tribal Muslim areas, some of that comes in). With Scientology, though, there seems to be no way to be a casually-lapsed believer or to dabble in it – the demanding money, which is not spent on anything other than furthering the greater good of the Org, and the strongarm tactics, aren’t just the mainstream; they’re the only thing. You can’t be a Cafeteria Scientologist or the equivalent of a rank and file agnostic Jew (much though I am sure the top Org leadership has their doubts about the 707s).
I always thought it was a numbers thing. And i’m not talking about money.
I’d bet the percentage of of people who are actually member of that church/religion is very low compared to other religions.
A low percentage of people is a very easy target. IMHO, their views and practices aren’t that much more “out there” than any other religion. But except for weddings, I’ve never been to church or read a word of the Bible. So I’m not a real authority on what makes one religion more weird than another.
It sort of reminds me of all the Fred Phelps threads. Yeah he’s a wacko, but again, imho, there are so many more powerful chucrh leaders of all faiths who do much more damage than Phelps does. But it’s easier to rip Phelps than someone from a popular church with a world wide following.
Criticize Phelps or Scientology, it’s mostly a big meh. Try ripping into the Catholic church on this board and you’re going to piss off a lot of people.
A lot of it is simply that there are noteworthy celebrity adherents, probably out of proportion to the religion’s popularity among hoi polloi. Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Lisa Marie Presley, Sonny Bono, half the cast of “That 70’s Show,” Beck, the chick who does Bart Simpson’s voice, and so on. If it weren’t for all the celebrities who’ve embraced the new weird religion I doubt there’d be as much attention paid to it.
Im not sure if I completely agree with your last statement. Religion and philosophy are intertwined to some extent are they not? I, as a evangelicaly Christian, hold to a Christian philsophy and that philsophy dictates my actions. Would not any philosophy that one holds lead to how one lives life and thus be life lived out?
But thats not really what he was talking about. I am a Youth Pastor at a church (well I start in a couple weeks) but I would gladly tell you the beliefs that I hold. Heck if you met me in person I could talk to you about it from the begining. You can openly purchase Systematic Theologies from all sorts of different world religions (Ericksons Christian Theology is a really good one if you want to know more about conservative Christianity), but you cannot from the Scientologists, you have to join them, and then pay more and more for each tidbit of information given.
Much like what I wrote in a BBQ Pit Thread yesterday, it is considered a religion by government equal to Judaism, Catholicism, Christianity, Islam. Scientology receives tax benefits equal to old religions, but I have not heard of any charity Scientology members do that DOES NOT involve getting more members.
If I were a devout christian, catholic, Jew, what-have-you, Scientology would annoy me the most mainly because calling this cult a religion equates it to religions founded on centuries of practice, law, lifestyle, etc. It’s written by a very poor sci-fi writer in the '50s!
How can it be considered a religion?
When I lived in Boston, my friends were set on taking a free IQ test on Boylston St. to see who was smarter. When they arrived for the test, the Scientologists came to them and asked them to fill out a “personality questionnaire” first. They both left. I told them they’re both brilliant men for leaving.
Tempting as this line of argument is, there’s nothing in the definition of religion that requires charity work. I know very little about Scientology, but from what I understand it’s a fradulent money making scheme. That makes it different from Christianity, Judaism, et. al.
What do they do that is worse? They break the law. And for breaking the law is for what they have been investigated. Just like Christians or Muslims are investigated when they break the law.
Maybe charity work isn’t a requirement… I think it is.
Even so, Christians will wash cars for a fund raiser and not try to make conversions happen, where the CoS pre-clears will wash your car AFTER you’ve taken the APA or paid your initial $240, not before.
Operation Snow White is a good example. And the freakout too.
Yes, but people talk about how Christianity is a path not an ethos. You have to LIVE Christianity you have to accept Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior. He is known by his works, and not by some philosophy. Yes there are philosophical aspects to it, but it is about the life lived and not the words spoken. You cannot ‘explain’ revelation to someone. Either they experience a revelation or they do not.
True, you cannot be a Christian without the “path” aspects of accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
But their is still a distinction from Scientology in that you walk into a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America, not the same thing as PCUSA) church and they will tell you exactly to the letter what they believe, most often they can give it to you in printed (or digital) form. They can point you to the Synods of Dort or the Westminster Catechism and say here is exactly what we believe, and no curve balls will be thrown in later. The same is not true of scientology.