Good article on Frodo vs. Sam, nice analysis of book vs. films.
don’t ask writes:
> I think I explained above that I would be really pissed off had I
> read the books.
I think that you’re going by someone’s summary of the book that doesn’t really explain Frodo’s or Sam’s motivations or the point of many of the occurrences in the book. Hard as it may be to believe, The Lord of the Rings is easy to betray by a summary. I think that part of the problem with the script for Jackson’s films is that they sound like they were written by someone who hadn’t read the books for five years and, while they got the place and character names right, misunderstood the point of many scenes and the motivations of many characters. And someone who, because they didn’t understand the point and the motivations, felt free to make up their own scenes and dialogue, because they made just as much sense to them as the vaguely remembered scenes from their distant memories.
(My apologies for replying to a comment so far back in the thread. You may already understand my point.)
I think I am the preamble queen… so here goes…
(sorry if this is considered too far off thread)
(no one will likely be my friend after this ;))
(I realize this isn’t the way Tolkien wrote the book, so who am I?)
(may or may not be a spoiler)
For Sam to be an uber hero, he would have shoved all his feelings to the background and taken into consideration the full effects of NOT having the ring destroyed and pushed Frodo over the edge when he reailized that Frodo was unable to let go.
My wife was shocked after we watched the first movie and I commented that Sam was the real hero of the War of the Ring in my book. My explanation:
Sam wasn’t there to save the world. He wasn’t there to get his name into the songs of legend. The only reason for making the journey he did was to be with and protect his dearest friend in any way he could. He would have never gone had Frodo not been wrapped up in it. He saw what the Ring was doing to his friend (and what it had done to Gollum), yet he knew how much it meant to Frodo to keep going, and he even bravely (and briefly) carried the Ring himself, not knowing what it might do to him. He didn’t want to see his beloved Mr. Frodo at the Crack of Doom (or for that matter anywhere near this War), yet he complied with his friend’s wishes and pushed (and carried) him when he needed to. He faced death many times for no reason other than to stick by his friend. I want a friend like Samwise Gamgee.
Frodo, OTOH, was at least somewhat aware of the dangers of carrying the Ring. He had no idea if he could resist it or what might become of him in carrying it, yet he allowed himself to be the bearer and took a huge risk to his life and health (almost like volunteering to be injected with a most likely lethal disease, but doing so because you don’t want anyone else to be subjected to it).
Frodo’s compassion for Gollum at first stemmed from Bilbo’s and Gandalf’s preachings, then later as he realized what the Ring would do to one’s soul, will, and mind. He felt sort of a brotherly connection to Gollum in enduring what G had for 500 years, except G didn’t realize beforehand the dangers involved in possessing the Ring. That’s what stayed Frodo’s hand (and caused him to stay Sam’s hand more than once). Gollum had completely fallen under the power of the Ring (not unlike a severe crack addict).
And don’t forget that the Ring is as much a character in this story as it is a prop. It could cause events to go a certain way, such as Isildur losing it in the river (rather than on the ground); making itself appear to Deagol; calling to the more evilly inclined Smeagol to take his cousin’s life and possess it; making Gollum lose it in the Misty Mountains so Bilbo could find it and get closer to it’s real master; causing Frodo more than once to wear it at very inopportune times; and finally, calling to it’s nearest ally (Gollum) when it sensed that it was about to be undone at Mt. Doom. Unfortunately the Ring doesn’t control things absolutely, it can only set them in motion. Frodo suddenly claims the Ring for himself, but Gollum is already enroute. The book and the film differ a bit at this point – Gollum dances with joy at recovering his Precious, but loses his balance and goes over the edge (something the Ring can’t control). A key point IMO, as the film shows Frodo shoving him over the edge. Excepting Sam, neither of the parties present wanted to destroy the Ring at that point. Ah well, the job is done anyway.
So, did I read too much into the characters or what?
Frodo doesn’t push Gollum off, they both lose their footing and fall off together. I didn’t get the feeling that Frodo was trying to destroy the Ring- you can see the anger/hate in his eyes, and he pointedly grabs at Gollum’s hands throughout the struggle. If he wanted to destroy it, just shoving Gollum hard would’ve worked better.