This is good. I’m glad Newsom is making it so easy to oppose him in the primary.
No significant politician, maybe not even AOC wants ICE “abolished”. Cut back, reduced in power, yes, but not totally abolished. Cut their budget- certainly.
What does “Blue MAGA” mean to you? To me it’s someone with policies that are every bit as stupid and populist as MAGA’s, but left leaning - I certainly wouldn’t describe “opposition to defending ICE” as a Blue MAGA position. “Defund ICE” is exactly the kind of populist nonsense I’d associate with Blue MAGA.
It is not nonsense to want ICE abolished. ICE has no reason to exist. We already have CBP and other law enforcement.
ICE is a symbol of bigotry, brutality, and fascism and must be abolished. In the primary I won’t support any candidate who doesn’t advocate for abolishing ICE and assigning its responsibilities to other agencies.
And abolish ICE is now more than a mainstream position, according to polling: Most Americans supported Trump’s mass deportations during 2024 election. Now, more want to abolish ICE than not | The Independent
Yes, I understand. “Abolish ICE and expand the role of CBP to do the job it used to do” is the new “Defund the Police and instead fund other agencies to do the jobs we make police officers do now that don’t required armed LEO responding”. I made the same arguments in 2020.
In hindsight, it was enormously stupid to do so. No one listens past the slogan. I regret the choices I and others made in 2020. I think if it wasn’t for COVID Trump would have won in 2020 in part because that was the message we had.
There was never even a plurality supporting “defund the police”, according to polling. Right now, a plurality and close to a majority supports “abolish ICE”. It may become a majority soon.
Perhaps one of the dumbest slogans ever, right up there with ‘catch the wave’ for New Coke.
De-militarizing the police might have been more popular without the baggage of defund.
Look at that, you’ve got a better slogan already!
Abolish ICE, however, cannot be improved.
The INS was founded in 1933. Up until trump, ICE served a useful function.
The Border patrol hasnt done the job of INS/ICE since 1933.
But before we continue, is this really about the OP, or should the discussion for “Defunding ICE” go into one of the other several threads about ICE?
“Abolish ICE” is a call for the Trump-47-era agency with its massive influx of untrained, unvetted, unprofessional, and biased thugs to be abolished, nothing less but also nothing more.
How many cities or metro areas have disbanded their transit operator when it became unwieldly or ineffective? They didn’t then have no transit operator, they chartered a more suitable one, under a new name to signal to the public that it isn’t the same agency.
Or a more pertinent example, if a foreign one: the replacement of the Royal Ulster Constabulary with the Police Service of Northern Ireland. “Disband the RUC” was a slogan at the time, but nobody was under the delusion that Northern Ireland would have no police. It was a call for an organization perceived as irreparably tainted to be replaced by a different organization organized differently, with the new name representing the first difference and hopefully symbolic of the latter difference..
The Democratic candidate should offer a general amnesty to all undocumented foriegn nationals (without felony convictions) currently in the country and the camps, while taking the resources (and the few useful personnel) from ICE and using it to control our borders, once and for all. Migrant workers would be licensed and allocated work visas as needed.
That would be the American way forward.
Unfortunately, that’s not how the term “Abolish ICE” will be weaponized. It will be twisted to mean that anyone in favor of that is in favor of open borders and no immigration restrictions. The meaning will be “Get rid of immigration enforcement” rather than “Undo Trump’s version of immigration enforcement”. Anyone who is in favor of “Abolish ICE” will be labeled as supporting unrestricted immigration. If it needs two paragraphs to explain that it’s really about reforming immigration enforcement rather than doing away with it, it’s going to be counter productive. It’s another slogan that’s easily twisted by the opposition along the lines of “Black Lives Matter” and “Defund the Police”.
Yeah, remember in 2020 when everyone was yelling about Black Lives Matter and defunding the police? That sure didn’t work out well for the Democrats. /s
I mean, we were running against Donald Trump, after he’d already had a chance to demonstrate how horribly flawed all of his policies were, and after he was hit by a once in a century disaster in COVID that he completely dropped the ball on. It should have been a landslide for the Democrats, and instead we barely squeaked out a win.
And then in 2024 not only did we not win but we lost the popular vote.
You’re being sarcastic, but you’re right - it did NOT work out well for the Democrats.
Unlike “defund the police”, “abolish ICE” has plurality support that appears to be growing. Several Democrats have already embraced it. And unlike the police, there’s no long history of ICE in the US. It’s a relatively new agency.
Nate Silver and friends just ran a primary draft; here are their consensus opinions of the most likely candidates, in order.
- Gavin Newsom. As I said way at the beginning of this thread, the candidate perceived as being the rudest to Trump will have a big advantage, and Newsom seems to have taken my advice to heart.
- AOC. There’s certainly going to be some left-wing candidate in the race, and after Mamdami, it’s hard to argue they won’t have a decent chance of winning. AOC seems to have a big advantage over the pack in terms of name recognition, except of course for Bernie, who is 84 but who is close to AOC and would probably endorse her immediately if she ran.
- Pete Buttigieg
- Gretchen Whitmer. There’s a lot to be said for “stop overthinking it and just nominate a popular swing State Governor”.
- Ruben Gallego. Promising young talent.
- Josh Shapiro. See #4. Strong support for Israel could be problematic.
- Wes Moore.
- Kamala Harris. Hey, at least she has name recognition!
- Cory Booker.
- Raphael Warnock.
- Jon Ossoff
- Mark Kelly
- Jon Stewart?!
- JB Pritzker – strong anti-Trump cred, but vast inherited wealth not a great fit for the Democratic base
- Andy Beshear
- Ro Khanna – possible progressive Plan B if AOC doesn’t run
- Amy Klobuchar. The only candidate on this list who would seriously test my commitment to “vote blue no matter who”.
- Chris Murphy