Fuck Hamas

[BrainGlutton]

@brazil84

I think you’re politely trying to say that a West Bank under Palestinian control is likely to be intolerant and hostile towards a Jewish minority and is very likely to slaughter and chase out the Jews just as was done to whites in Zimbabwe.

Or did I misunderstand?

I think exactly that – except that the situation will not arise; it’s inconceivable that Israel will grant independence to the WB without prior evacuation of settlers, as in Gaza and the Sinai – because the Israelis can see the situation quite clearly. The settlers would never be safe without the IDF to protect them – they might have arms and organization, but numbers would overwhelm them – and Palestine cannot be independent if it has to tolerate IDF troops (or, for that matter, settlers armed and organized to fight the Palestinian state) within its borders.

The only conceivable solution that allows the settlers to stay is a one-state solution.

[BrainGlutton]

@brazil84

By the way, is there any serious support for BrainGlutton’s claim that Jewish settlers have grabbed the “best land”? It sounds like liberal bullshit to me.

No cite handy, but it’s a point I’ve seen raised in several GD threads and never contradicted even by pro-Israel posters. Here’s a map of the settlements. It’s an awful lot of territory.

[BrainGlutton]

@Bryan_Ekers

If he is, I’d like to sugest that the Jews will be sufficiently determined and well-armed to not make this nearly as easy as the Zimbabwe actions.

That just means that much more bloodshed on both sides; it won’t change the outcome.

[brazil84]

@Bryan_Ekers

If he is, I’d like to sugest that the Jews will be sufficiently determined and well-armed to not make this nearly as easy as the Zimbabwe actions.

I agree. The Palestinians might end up wishing the IDF had never left the area.

The settlers would never be safe without the IDF to protect them – they might have arms and organization, but numbers would overwhelm them

I doubt it, but thank you for illustrating my point.

[brazil84]

@BrainGlutton

No cite handy, but it’s a point I’ve seen raised in several GD threads and never contradicted even by pro-Israel posters.

As I say, it sounds like BS to me.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@BrainGlutton

That just means that much more bloodshed on both sides; it won’t change the outcome.

Welcome to the Middle East.

[BrainGlutton]

@brazil84

As I say, it sounds like BS to me.

Did you look at the map? All the land nearest the Jordan – i.e., the best-watered land – is in Israeli hands.

[brazil84]

@BrainGlutton

Did you look at the map? All the land nearest the Jordan – i.e., the best-watered land – is in Israeli hands.

Oh really? According to this map, the land nearest the Jordan falls into 3 categories: arid; hyper arid; and extremely arid.

But I’ll go out on a limb and predict that (1) the Jewish settlers will find a way to make that land economically viable and productive; and (2) people will whine that the Jews grabbed all the best land.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

If I water your lawn, does that it mine?

[Clothahump]

@Crafter_Man

IMO, Israel should have wiped them out a long time ago. Not sure why they’ve pussy-footed around.

You’re not the only one who thinks that.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

If I water your lawn, does that it mine?

Depends what you water it with.

[BrainGlutton]

@brazil84

Oh really? According to this map, the land nearest the Jordan falls into 3 categories: arid; hyper arid; and extremely arid.

Hmmm . . . then why would the settlers want, and take, all the land near the Jordan?

Would it have something to do with wanting to control the WB’s only non-Israeli border . . . forever?

[bdgr]

@brazil84

Let’s suppose that’s true. It’s still a possible answer to Dio’s question.

I think that answers it.

My ancestors were forced off of land back in Georgia. While I would love to own land there, I’m not going to start blowing up school kids to try and get it back. If i start lobbing rockets into Atlanta, I know that I’m going to get my ass kicked for it and still not get my great grandmothers land back, so I’m not going to do it. and if the swat team accidentally shoots a family member because I’m shooting rockets out of my living room I’m the one to blame, not the swat team.

So, yeah, you tolerate people on land that USED TO BE yours because the alternative is worse. At some point you have to give up on the past and just move on and accept that you aren’t going to get that back.

[brazil84]

@BrainGlutton

Hmmm . . . then why would the settlers want, and take, all the land near the Jordan?

Would it have something to do with wanting to control the WB’s only non-Israeli border . . . forever?

Let’s assume that’s true for the sake of argument. Your claim is that the Jewish settlers took all the “best land,” which you claim is the “best-watered land” near the Jordan river. The link I provided seems to say that the land near the Jordan river is the driest land around.

So it would seem that your claim does not stand up to scrutiny. But since I’m not an expert on ecology and agriculture in the Middle-East, please feel free to correct me.

[BrainGlutton]

@bdgr

So, yeah, you tolerate people on land that USED TO BE yours because the alternative is worse. At some point you have to give up on the past and just move on and accept that you aren’t going to get that back.

Provided you realistically can do without it. A Palestinian state will not be economically or politically viable without the land currently occupied by Israeli settlements. For another thing, to be independent, Palestine has to control its own border with Jordan, with no IDF troops in sight.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Alessan, I hope that you and yours are safe, and in the spirit of the OP, I’d like to add:

FUCK HAMAS.

[bdgr]

@BrainGlutton

Provided you realistically can do without it. A Palestinian state will not be economically or politically viable without the land currently occupied by Israeli settlements. For another thing, to be independent, Palestine has to control its own border with Jordan, with no IDF troops in sight.

if they want that, then it would be best to stop blowing things up. If you want to get rid of the babysitter, stop acting like you need a babysitter. And definitely stop saying the only solution they will accept is the destruction of Israel.

[BrainGlutton]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Alessan, I hope that you and yours are safe, and in the spirit of the OP, I’d like to add:

FUCK HAMAS.

Seconded. They’re killers and fools. And will remain ineluctably relevant for the foreseeable future.

[BrainGlutton]

@brazil84

Let’s assume that’s true for the sake of argument. Your claim is that the Jewish settlers took all the “best land,” which you claim is the “best-watered land” near the Jordan river. The link I provided seems to say that the land near the Jordan river is the driest land around.

So it would seem that your claim does not stand up to scrutiny. But since I’m not an expert on ecology and agriculture in the Middle-East, please feel free to correct me.

Neither am I, and my google-fu is not strong today, so let’s do this the lazyDope way and take it to GQ.

[Der_Trihs]

@bdgr

if they want that, then it would be best to stop blowing things up. If you want to get rid of the babysitter, stop acting like you need a babysitter.

A foolish statement. Without some sort of coercion, the settlers will simply take everything and keep it indefinitely. You won’t ever see peace from the Palestinians unless and until they have something to gain from it beyond starving in a slum or a camp.

And it’s amusing how supposedly it’s perfectly reasonable for the Israelis to try to get what they want by killing, but not for the Palestinians to do the same thing.